Society of Misguided Adventurers

Thinking five patches, not married to the big five, but follows the profile.

1. Teardrop
2. Football shape / Prolate spheroid
3. Triangle
4. Square
5. Pentagon

Points add up 1-5, honorary would be a circle. Wearing them would not actually be required! Most interested in setting up some safari rifle shoots / challenges. We rigged lame moving targets, with scantly more effort and some clothesline rigs and good target prints we could have a ball with double rifles and .416 Rigby's et al. I'm sure between us we could get some prizes set up. We could be a lack of force to be reckoned with, at least the sound of our friendly little competition would be more akin to a naval engagement than the crackle of a IPSC match.
 
First we have to determine if we are still going to use black rhino as a big five member, or are we going to the hippo as most are these days. First off the hippo is still plentiful and always has been more dangerous that the rhino, and particularly these days with a black rhino hunt bringing between a 1/4 and 1/2 million bucks. And there is almost nothing sporting about it, unlike hippo, which if you choose to hunt the right time of year you can hunt while on land and is both very sporting and seriously dangerous. White rhino don't even qualify in my books as you might as well shoot a Holstein cow for the amount of danger and sport there is to shooting a white rhino.


What say Y'all...............
 
I would respectfully disagree on the hippo, It never was and never will be considered one of the "big 5".

The big 5 is built on 200 years of hunting tradition and lore.

A heym .470NE is a double rifle built with probably better steel and can be of equal quality of fit and finish to a Rigby or H&h. It will never be a bespoke bond street gun with the mystique and romance that encompasses.
A modern mustang GT may be just as fast and superior in every facet of ride and handling and reliability to a ferrari dino, but it will never be a ferrari.

In much the same way a hippo will never be a substitute for a black rhino. The vast majority of hippo's are brained while soaking in the tub with no more drama or danger than the aforementioned holstein. No doubt they are grumpy and can ruin your day in a heartbeat- But a part of the "big 5" they never were and can never be.

When the chinese finish off the last elephant will we substitute in the bushbuck? ( it can be grumpy when wounded and has has killed more than one sport who didn't pay proper respect) or indeed the one creature that has killed more people in africa and around the world than any other is the mosquito- dangerous yes, a part of the big 5-I don't think so.

The big 5 is as it always was and always will be- Leopard, Lion, Cape Buffalo, Elephant and Black Rhino...Availability and affordability never were a prerequisite for inclusion in that club.
 
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I'm not entirely sure that there are any huntable wild black rhino left at this point- The one Mr Knowlton is (Has?) going to hunt is a black Rhino no doubt, but it has been named and monitored it's whole life, vet checked I'm sure...so in many ways it is also closer to a holstein than a truly wild critter. That would truly be splitting ethical hairs though. There is no doubt that it is much closer to the "big 5" than a Hippo though....

Along the same vein a canned south african lion is a very impressive looking trophy to the unitiated- Full mane down the belly, no scars, huge... but I think most sportsman would agree Even if the PH takes the ear tag out before the photo op it is nowhere near the trophy that a lesser maned truly wild Tanzanian/Zambian/Botswana cat.
 
notlim2424 said:
I'm not entirely sure that there are any huntable wild black rhino left at this point- The one Mr Knowlton is (Has?) going to hunt is a black Rhino no doubt, but it has been named and monitored it's whole life, vet checked I'm sure...so in many ways it is also closer to a holstein than a truly wild critter. That would truly be splitting ethical hairs though. There is no doubt that it is much closer to the "big 5" than a Hippo though....

Along the same vein a canned south african lion is a very impressive looking trophy to the unitiated- Full mane down the belly, no scars, huge... but I think most sportsman would agree Even if the PH takes the ear tag out before the photo op it is nowhere near the trophy that a lesser maned truly wild Tanzanian/Zambian/Botswana cat.
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west African cat don't have the lovely mane that some may have but they worth their weight in gold ...
 
All depends, I've hunted Lion in the Kalahari on an area so large you could never tell the cats they are lesser than a cat just across the border out of Etosha. The first Lion hunt I booked was a problem Lion out of Etosha, however he "returned to the park" (ie. moved to areas where he was even less welcome, and was poisoned) before I could arrive and I'll admit now much to my chagrin my plans were changed. To my great relief, I was set on scarred up trouble makers, open land born and not human conditioned, Boddington hunted the same place I had a few months before. One of their PHs had just ended up in the hospital as a result of a charge gone wrong, and I saw the footage fortunately, he was bit and the other PH who I hunted with shot the cat off him.

Some will paint every area with the same brush, this is neither accurate nor fair. I'm off to Cameroon in January self guiding after Elephant, and frankly I doubt my Elephant experience will be any less real than Lion in the private land Kalahari. If the animal is free, open land born, eats only natural food, and is hunted on foot by tracking then it's a wild animal. We've all heard the horror stories of freshly pen released animals and even half drugged or tame animals being "hunted", but if we assume all hunts in South Africa or much of Namibia now are the same we're blindly becoming no better than the anti-hunting crowd and we'll assure the death of much of dangerous game hunting. Just the same, we owe it as a responsibility within the hunting community to keep the pursuits honest, we just can't paint with so broad a brush.

The Big Five can never be changed, but our levels can be for these recreational purposes. Fortunately this is the misguided adventurers club, not expressly the Big Five club, though that certainly is one avenue within this interest in misadventuring. I would happily recognize Hippo and Nile Croc as one of your points. Same for White Rhino of course. I've stood within twenty yards of Black Rhino in Zimbabwe, and the same of White Rhino later and can't say I felt any safer with the White Rhino. Closest I've been to Hippo on land without a vehicle around me is probably a hundred or more yards, quite by surprise, and they are startlingly agile and large creatures even viewed from that distant perspective. They have my respect, as anything 4,000lbs with tusks or horns does. Polar Bear, Grizzly bear also highly interesting- Doug's killing this list already. High altitude sheep in remote areas, same deal. If an adventure must be made to get it done, this group's all ears, and we won't be too fussy.
 
Perhaps I'll have to draw out a points hierarchy for species, and assign that to the levels. That way you can reach different ones even if you've never been to Africa. Wood Bison somewhere remote is as interesting to me as Cape Buffalo, and I'd like the group to reflect that. It's all about the adventure.
 
Hunting like all sports and activities evolve, to say there can never be another hunter who will ever be able to take the big five, because of the plight of the black rhino, is rather close minded. There CAN be the old big five and then the new big five. The hippo has been recognized as a very dangerous fellow by many who have encountered it on dry land, and like all the big five is only dangerous given a certain set of circumstances. The cape buff is not particularly dangerous in it's normal condition and habitat, UNTIL you start putting holes in his hide in the wrong places. A lion will almost always dart off when discovered, and is most elusive until it has been followed for a fairly long time, then he will stand his ground and offer to fight. Leopard are almost totally benign unless one puts a poorly placed hole in his spots. The Africans are not the least bit afraid of the leopard however they are quite terrified of the hippo in all his environs. The only truly dangerous animals in Africa without being molested are the elephant, the hippo and the croc. All you have to do is put yourself in proximity of these critters to end up dead. Hence my vote for the hippo, everybody knows not to go near the water in croc country so he is very easy to avoid contact with if you chose. The hippo on dry land is the most neurotic of animals and is convinced he is in danger all the time, so he charges and attempts to bite anything he doesn't like, and he most specifically doesn't like man. In the water he is extremely territorial and will charge and bite anything that he considers an invader into his territory, including crocs who misbehave and try to take calves.
In the last 50 years more people have been injured or killed by hippos than rhinos by a wide margin, so I think it is a natural evolution of the sport to change out the rhino for the hippo, due to the threat they pose to people and the difficulty to kill and their body count over the last 50-75 years.
 
I don't think it is close- minded, merely factual. We all know what the big 5 is-Ardent is so kind as to have it listed in his signature line so we don't forget.
As there is no official "big 5" record, scorekeeper, high commision or whatever- it is only for people like us who are interested and spend significant amounts of time, money and energy to pursue such things as a discussion subject.

As an example most likely no-one will ever sport hunt legally a Tiger or Jaguar again- Should we rename a caracal as a tiger and say it is the same thing? Would it not greatly cheapen the achievements of the last living men who did hunt Tigers and Jaguars? They are the same men who successfully hunted the "big 5", I know a couple of those men and I suspect you do too. (big 5- can't say as I ever met anyone with a tiger or jaguar, but I know they are out there)

Realizing we are veering off on a tangent from the misguided society (but this is what it was created for?) I would say that if someone I was discussing current world events with mentioned in passing that he had successfully hunted the "big 5" and I then asked how's and where's about the Rhino? And he said "oh no- I substituted a hippo for the Rhino" I would come away from the discussion thinking he had misrepresented his achievements- Wouldn't you?

No doubt there can be a "new 5" and "old 5" as stated there is no officially sanctioned "keeper of the big 5" except you and I in our heads.

If someone told me they had a Dino and showed me a mustang GT and when questioned said it "was just as fast, easier to afford and easier to find so he called it a Ferrari" I would also feel he was misrepresenting.

Many people say that hippo's have always killed more people (natives) than all of the big 5 put together- even 50 or 100yrs ago. That's not a new thing in the last 30 years since the rhino has been decimated.

I would add snake to your list of "dangerous animals without molesting " all the natives I have been around were somewhat nonchalant around elephants and hippos, cautious around lions, pretty damn cautious around water they knew had crocs, and absolutely sh%t ass terrified of snakes-any snake sighting and it was just the fat white guy left standing there alone- trackers and scouts were gone so fast all that was left was dust in the air.

BUT tangent notwithstanding as an interesting subject- Ardent is of course correct- I love to hear stories of polar bear hunts, Mongolian/Kamchatka sheep any unusual adventure besides whitetails and turkeys...
A self guided forest elephant is the coolest- They are super neat looking with that dark Ivory, Are you organizing it with Cam? To me that is very near or the pinnacle of misguided adventuring available to us in this day and age.
 
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Actually NL2424........I think SCI does track the "Big Five" and accepts the white rhino as the fifth, I think they have an award for it as well, don't know, not a member, probably should be but never have joined. Don't care about their awards, for which I'm sure I qualify for about a dozen. It was also SCI that put forward the hippo as a new replacement for the black rhino for the big five..........at least that's what I heard.
Anyway, it really doesn't matter, except you've rattled my chain enough now that I'm just going to have to go shoot a rhino!! Damn, and here I thought I had the new "Big Five"............You're gonna cost me a fortune there NL2424..........Now I gotta call my contacts over there and see who can find me a rhino permit and how MUCH this little adventure is going to cost me. I know they sell one every year out of Kruger as a management tool to thin out the old bulls and keep the population strong and help fund the management programs there. Last one I heard went for $250,000..............HHHMMMMMMM.......that is a LOT of scratch..........However they are a truly wild black rhino, yes they are monitored but not handled or managed in any way beyond the one animal cull yearly.

However I have to go back to the Congo first and replace my capes................Then Oz, then maybe rhino........I also have the croc, a black mamba, a puff adder, 3 cape cobras, a spitting cobra and saved the life of a Gabon viper, so I consider his life to belong to me, so I have 5 of the deadliest snakes in Africa as well.
 
c-fbmi,
I was a member of SCI for a while and it's really not worth your trouble- I'm sure they do track the "big 5", "little 5", "green 5" and "blue 7", They also track game preserve deer and elk- with or without ear tags, it don't matter to most of them. You really aren't missing anything at all not being a member there... The convention is cool and a sight to see, but other than that they really aren't any keeper of books that most any hunter cares about.

The snake 5 is one they haven't thought of I don't think and pretty cool, I only have a spitter and a possible black mamba- I think I got him on his way into the termite mound but he made it into the hole and there wasn't enough money on my person to convince any of the staff to do their job and start tracking:D

Sorry if I convinced you into chasing a rhino- but I suspect it didn't take too much arm twisting. For me the math is easy- 10 more sets of ivory or 1 little set of hairy horns- I'll take the ivory every time. All the best luck in the world to you if you are seriously considering it, the money from those old bulls is desperately needed over there to try and keep those last few rhino on the savannah and not in some chinese dudes morning cup of #### medicine.
 
I had the same problem with my trackers in the Congo, we saw a huge black colored snake which the PH said was some type of Cobra. He was disappearing into a hole in the bank along side the track, from what I saw he had to be more than 15' long and coal black on the back. None of them guys would dig him out for me to shoot either, seemed to me there was a real lack of discipline around there!!! Don't know what was in that hole but chances are it was in deep sh!t............
 
notlim2424 said:
c-fbmi,
I was a member of SCI for a while and it's really not worth your trouble- I'm sure they do track the "big 5", "little 5", "green 5" and "blue 7", They also track game preserve deer and elk- with or without ear tags, it don't matter to most of them. You really aren't missing anything at all not being a member there...
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You need to look beyond the convention and awards, which are really just the publicized portion and back slapping for wealthy members. The individual chapters do a lot in regard to promoting hunting in their community and SCI as a whole is the only organization that is there to fight for hunters worldwide.
 
I don't think Angus created this thread to discuss the relative merits and shortcomings of SCI. Possibly another thread could be started for that discussion, this is a "tongue in cheek" organization being created solely for the purpose of BS over coffee and other highly important activities, like comparing the relative merits of everybody's double rifles, the life saving importance of ejectors over extractors and whether high SD C+C solids or homogenous construction gives better penetration on bullets over 400 grns..........you know, critical, earth shattering, topics like this...........
 
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