I can imagine what the old Regulars said when the Sniders replaced the Muskets, Even with bolt actions the military resisted mag fed bolt actions and insisted on stop plates. then there was the lack of desire to equip with machine guns, etc etc.
Socom signs on the dotted line. ie SCAR
- Thread starter jmiddy
- Start date
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- Calgary, Alberta
The FN-made M16A4s are nothing special in terms of quality, in fact there was a TV show where they toured the factory and it didn't look as high-tech as the Colt factory, frankly. I had an FN-made M16A2 barrel and also an FN-made upper and they were ho hum.
I agree with Kev, everything that keeps coming from these SF units is that they are underwhelmed by the 5.56mm SCAR so I'm surprised by that press release. I've tried the SCAR and yes, it's a 5.56mm rifle. Wow. There was nothing special about it as far as I could see.
The SCARs barrel change sales pitch is very stupid and you will need to rezero your sight and PEQ ever time you change 
Better to have two uppers with optics and PEQs on each "this relates to SOF only" Army does not need anything other then a 16" barrel. Also do you really want grunts changing there barrels "stripping screws or damaging the gun. Also pistons are not self cleaning and piston guns do jam if not taken care of.
I see the FN SCAR going the way as the 6.8
Better to have two uppers with optics and PEQs on each "this relates to SOF only" Army does not need anything other then a 16" barrel. Also do you really want grunts changing there barrels "stripping screws or damaging the gun. Also pistons are not self cleaning and piston guns do jam if not taken care of.I see the FN SCAR going the way as the 6.8
The SCARs barrel change sales pitch is very stupid and you will need to rezero your sight and PEQ ever time you change
I see the FN SCAR going the way as the 6.8
16" Seriously, Tell that to DM's , and it wouldn't be an issue to take your rifle to an Armourer and let him switch the barrel out in 20 minutes, I seriously doubt they will let as you say "grunts" change barrels thats just idiotic.
Ok were are doing CQB today, everyone goto your wpns tech and have your barrel changed. Then see the FCS and have your sight and PEQ bresighted. After CQB have them put your long barrels back on
"like the armoures aren't busy enough, now they have to change barrels every few days" EPIC FAIL
The barrel change idea...
Another example of why End User input is not always ideal.
Its sounds great, but it needs to have both engineer, and armorer input as well, temptered with the End-User understanding.
Then the proof of concept model needs testing.
Otherwise you end up with the SCAR and the Mk23 pistol.
You don't know how many weird harold idea that my boss (Lt.Col. Lutz the VP of Military Operations), and I have to sort thru at work.
Another example of why End User input is not always ideal.
Its sounds great, but it needs to have both engineer, and armorer input as well, temptered with the End-User understanding.
Then the proof of concept model needs testing.
Otherwise you end up with the SCAR and the Mk23 pistol.
You don't know how many weird harold idea that my boss (Lt.Col. Lutz the VP of Military Operations), and I have to sort thru at work.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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i wonder if we will ever see any at the weapons school or over at the infantry school. id love to shoot one.
OK, so a lot of commentators are banging on the SCAR. But really, is it reality or just opinion? When KevinB states that SOCOM operators are into MOD 5 and that the thing is still not fieldable and that generally operators are not happy with it and then SOCOM advances it, I have to wonder if some people are simply talking their positions. And if you have never put one through its paces like real operators do then your opinion is just that...an opinion and worth as much as everyone else's.
In my world every guy on the floor who is short thinks stocks are going down and every guy who is long figures they are all going up and both will tell you that at the same time with the conviction of a Southern Baptist Minister.
KevinB I respect your opinion but there has to be more to SOCOM's choice than pork barreling, military intelligence, or premeditated incompetence. Maybe the thing works. Maybe it is better than the alternatives and the incumbent. I cannot speak authoritatively to any of the above but if there is someone in the operator community who can shed light on the SCAR and reality then please tickle the keyboard so that we the great unwashed masses may be enlightened.
As for the MK23 I could not disagree more. I own one. I have put it through hell and no matter what I have done (snow, sand, mud, all three) it has never failed and will put a round through a gnat's ass at 25 metres. It's heavy...yes. But that is its only drawback.
canucklehead
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Calgary, AB
You're talking to one... I would take his opinion over most others. Granted, he may think the Knight's Armament offerings are SLIGHTLY superior to the SCAR,
but I'm guessing he's talked to more end users of MANY systems than we would ever dream of.The man knows of what he speaks. I'm sure some love the SCAR, but it sounds like it's not the first choice for many SOCOM 'end users'.
severus,
I'm not bagging on FN, they built exactly what the committee asked for, and now they have to keep tweeking it as a lot of the "desired items" are coming back to bite people, and need to be re-designed.
Look at XM-8 and OICW, a lot of money and careers where thrown at that for nothing, if SOCOM does not field SCAR, they are stuck with the M4A1's, and Mk18's.
I'll be honest and say our SCAR candidate sucked, and SOCOM picked the best of the candidates, but based on who I talk to, I am pretty sure its not getting the community what they want.
The Mk23 sits in Arms rooms, SOCOM units issue M9's to people who don't get G22's, P226R's, or Hk45C's, or have 1911's left over. Generally the community calls it the boat anchor, and the most "operational time" it ever got was with Bruce Willis in 'Tears of the Sun'
I'm not bagging on FN, they built exactly what the committee asked for, and now they have to keep tweeking it as a lot of the "desired items" are coming back to bite people, and need to be re-designed.
Look at XM-8 and OICW, a lot of money and careers where thrown at that for nothing, if SOCOM does not field SCAR, they are stuck with the M4A1's, and Mk18's.
I'll be honest and say our SCAR candidate sucked, and SOCOM picked the best of the candidates, but based on who I talk to, I am pretty sure its not getting the community what they want.
The Mk23 sits in Arms rooms, SOCOM units issue M9's to people who don't get G22's, P226R's, or Hk45C's, or have 1911's left over. Generally the community calls it the boat anchor, and the most "operational time" it ever got was with Bruce Willis in 'Tears of the Sun'
I bet you see some real Duezzies
The SCARs barrel change sales pitch is very stupid and you will need to rezero your sight and PEQ ever time you change
I think shorter than 16 inch barrels have a use, they would certainly have advantages for clearing through areas like Fallujah or any other city. Granted, I think a 16 inch barrel (C8A3, freefloat, with mid length gas system?) would be the best 'general purpose' barrel, with a stack of 11.5 uppers that can be made available depending on a unit's mission (moving into a city) and using a mix of the two while in that build up environment.
As for the SCAR, I hope they can get it working, seeing how they've already invested into it a fair bit. And, yeah, I really don't see the point in a quick change barrel on anything that isn't a machine gun. A different upper with pre-zeroed optics and laser makes much more sense to me, though admittedly would be more expensive.
