Soft barrel threads on Norc M14's?
- Thread starter CanuckShooter
- Start date
CGN would be flooded with topics like that if that was the case. I have 2 M-305 and never saw such an issue.
Our inhouse experts like Hungry and Skullboy can give you molecular level analysis of the M-305.. PM them
Over the past 3 years I've re-barreled in excess of a dozen M14S/305s and 4 or 5 springfields...I've noticed nothing that would indicate soft barrel threads (and I've had to torque some of them HARD to get them to index properly)....IMHO they are good to go!
Brobee
Brobee
CanuckShooter
CGN frequent flyer
The "soft steel" statement was posted by Lazerus2000:
I also prefer to swap in a USGI or aftermarket barrel for my keepers, mainly because the Chinese barrels have MUCH softer steel. Not a big deal for accuracy, cause both GI and import barrels are CHROME lined. However, the softer barrel threads and softer barrel shoulder cause the “DRAW” of the barrel to be erratic. This is why the Chinese receivers have that silly little screw on the barrel/receiver ... to lock the barrel in securely. Notwithstanding that lock screw, to date I've seen three Chinese M-14 clones that had the original barrels come loose.
Here is the link to the thread page, it's about a third of the way down or less: (just delete the space between the H and the T in http)
h ttp://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159452&page=3
Any input?
I also prefer to swap in a USGI or aftermarket barrel for my keepers, mainly because the Chinese barrels have MUCH softer steel. Not a big deal for accuracy, cause both GI and import barrels are CHROME lined. However, the softer barrel threads and softer barrel shoulder cause the “DRAW” of the barrel to be erratic. This is why the Chinese receivers have that silly little screw on the barrel/receiver ... to lock the barrel in securely. Notwithstanding that lock screw, to date I've seen three Chinese M-14 clones that had the original barrels come loose.
Here is the link to the thread page, it's about a third of the way down or less: (just delete the space between the H and the T in http)
h ttp://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159452&page=3
Any input?
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Not to get into a pissing contest with anyone here, but just to establish my credibility, and my credentials on the M-14 type rifles:
I have over a decade time in as a licensed PROFESSIONAL gunsmiter [ as in, I got paid ca$$h money to work on other people's firearms ].
My experience with M-14 rifles - GI original, Springfield, and Chinese - goes back to the 1980s, so some of the things I've reported may no longer be relevent to the newer batch of Chinese M-14 rifles.
I've personally owned about 5 dozen of the M-14 type rifles, took them apart completely, accurised them, rebuilt them, and also worked on dozens more for paying customers.
Believe what I say or don't believe what I say .....
that is entirely up to you.
But remember,
as with any other FREE internet advice,
you may be getting a bargain, or you may be getting bull####.
That is why the internet is so much fun ...
you have to decide for yourself which is which.
[;{)
LAZ
I have over a decade time in as a licensed PROFESSIONAL gunsmiter [ as in, I got paid ca$$h money to work on other people's firearms ].
My experience with M-14 rifles - GI original, Springfield, and Chinese - goes back to the 1980s, so some of the things I've reported may no longer be relevent to the newer batch of Chinese M-14 rifles.
I've personally owned about 5 dozen of the M-14 type rifles, took them apart completely, accurised them, rebuilt them, and also worked on dozens more for paying customers.
Believe what I say or don't believe what I say .....
that is entirely up to you.
But remember,
as with any other FREE internet advice,
you may be getting a bargain, or you may be getting bull####.
That is why the internet is so much fun ...
you have to decide for yourself which is which.
[;{)
LAZ
CanuckShooter
CGN frequent flyer
Lazerus,
That's exactly the reason I asked, due to your very extensive experience and knowledge of these rifles. I figured you weren't some guy who was feeding us crap and didn't know what he was talking about, otherwise I would have overlooked it, since as you said, there's lot's of misleading and false info out there.
You're probably right chanman, wasnt sure so i figured i would err on the side of caution lol
That's exactly the reason I asked, due to your very extensive experience and knowledge of these rifles. I figured you weren't some guy who was feeding us crap and didn't know what he was talking about, otherwise I would have overlooked it, since as you said, there's lot's of misleading and false info out there.
You're probably right chanman, wasnt sure so i figured i would err on the side of caution lol
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Best way to determine if steel is soft is to use a hardness tester. Heaven only knows what steel was used in the manufacture of these barrels. Or if different alloys were used during different periods of manufacture. I suspect that classic quality control issues may be a factor. If timing is off, and a barrel pulls up tight before top dead centre, excessive torque to get the barrel turned to index could result in deformed threads and shoulder, during original assembly. It is not rare for barrels on these rifles to be improperly indexed right out of the factory; this would suggest dimensional variations. Factory barrels coming loose would also suggest that barrels were over torqued, and then left with the setscrew to hold them on index.
What tiriaq said ...
the current run on 14s seem to have a lot of rifles with the front sight leaning off to the left = overtightened= barrel re-indexing the hard way = adding some material to the barrel shoulder/receiver junction to fix.
The right way to do this is on a lathe, with a roller, and you roll the edge of the barrel shoulder back down. The BUBBA way to do this is to use a very tiny hammer, and beat the shoulder down consistently with a thousand little teensy tiny taps all around the edge. REAL Bubbas will also use loctite, and maybe even wind some copper wire in under the shoulder.
[;{)
LAZ 1
the current run on 14s seem to have a lot of rifles with the front sight leaning off to the left = overtightened= barrel re-indexing the hard way = adding some material to the barrel shoulder/receiver junction to fix.
The right way to do this is on a lathe, with a roller, and you roll the edge of the barrel shoulder back down. The BUBBA way to do this is to use a very tiny hammer, and beat the shoulder down consistently with a thousand little teensy tiny taps all around the edge. REAL Bubbas will also use loctite, and maybe even wind some copper wire in under the shoulder.
[;{)
LAZ 1
I imagine that a knurling tool with smooth rolls would work to adjust the shoulder. Even more complicated is to turn the shoulder back and make a breeching washer of the correct thickness to allow the barrel to pull up tight and indexed. Like an FN.
I have a barrel roller tool intended for use in choking shotgun muzzles after the barrel has been cut. It would probably work very well for uniformly upsetting a rifle barrel shoulder. One catch with upstting the shoulder - you are going to get one chance to pull the barrel up to index. Overtighten it, and you are probably worse off than when you started.
Everyone is aware of the difficulties that US manufacturers have had producing these rifles, either under gov't contract or commercially. The Chinese rifles were manufactured by reverse engineering, without the benefit of the original dimensioned drawings. This is a hard way to manufacture anything. In one sense they are remarkably good; in another, there are these lingering quality control problems.
I have a barrel roller tool intended for use in choking shotgun muzzles after the barrel has been cut. It would probably work very well for uniformly upsetting a rifle barrel shoulder. One catch with upstting the shoulder - you are going to get one chance to pull the barrel up to index. Overtighten it, and you are probably worse off than when you started.
Everyone is aware of the difficulties that US manufacturers have had producing these rifles, either under gov't contract or commercially. The Chinese rifles were manufactured by reverse engineering, without the benefit of the original dimensioned drawings. This is a hard way to manufacture anything. In one sense they are remarkably good; in another, there are these lingering quality control problems.
PLUS,
orientation of the gas assembly and op rod guide [ and ultimately the barrel ] have a lot to do with whether the op rod reciprocates back and forth in a straight line. The tiny little tab that fits in the slot in the receiver can wear or even pop out if the alignment is off by too much.
If it ain't one thing, it is another ...
the M-14 rifle is a system, and ALL the parts must fly in close formation for it to work properly.
orientation of the gas assembly and op rod guide [ and ultimately the barrel ] have a lot to do with whether the op rod reciprocates back and forth in a straight line. The tiny little tab that fits in the slot in the receiver can wear or even pop out if the alignment is off by too much.
If it ain't one thing, it is another ...
the M-14 rifle is a system, and ALL the parts must fly in close formation for it to work properly.
PS: on the breeching washer idea ... the SA "White Feather" used a very thick washer, with a square lug on top tapped for the front of the propietary scope mount.
I often wondered if SA cut that extra material off the barrels on purpose, or if somebody came up with a way to use a batch of barrels that had been cut too short on the shoulder for regular re-indexing??
LAZ 1
I often wondered if SA cut that extra material off the barrels on purpose, or if somebody came up with a way to use a batch of barrels that had been cut too short on the shoulder for regular re-indexing??
LAZ 1
