Soft lead for big old antiques?

If you are going to use black powder, it's pretty easy to do it the way it was done in the old days. Some decent lube is all you need. Years ago I started off with home made lube, then SPG, but switched to DGL maybe 10 years ago as it seemed to work slightly better for some of the matches I've shot in the down in the states where it's ht and dry.

Just pan lube them, add a card or LDPE wad and shoot :).

Just let me know if you need any help getting going. I've shot well over ten of thousand BP rounds in places like the damp BC coast, to Phoenix Az and Byers Colorado. It's easy as long as you start off in the right direction.

Chris.
 
gunlaker said:
If you are going to use black powder, it's pretty easy to do it the way it was done in the old days. Some decent lube is all you need. Years ago I started off with home made lube, then SPG, but switched to DGL maybe 10 years ago as it seemed to work slightly better for some of the matches I've shot in the down in the states where it's ht and dry.

Just pan lube them, add a card or LDPE wad and shoot :).

Just let me know if you need any help getting going. I've shot well over ten of thousand BP rounds in places like the damp BC coast, to Phoenix Az and Byers Colorado. It's easy as long as you start off in the right direction.

Chris.
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That is exactly what I am doing, what I did from the start. I tried a homemade lube but dragon lube is cheap and seems to work great, so moved to that.

Before this whole thread blew up about how I need to change to powder coating the thread was actually about the hardness needed for 50-70 and 43 mauser bullets. The 43 mauser bullets are going to run a bit faster but still probably about 1400-1450fps with smokeless powder and the 50-70 runs right around 1200fps with a 65-70gr compressed load.
 
With respect to hardness, you won't go wrong with 20:1 or 16:1. My rifles shoot in the same velocity ranges.

A guy I've spoken with a few times in the states has a couple of NRA records and he shoots a mixture with a little bit of antimony. Not nearly as much as people use in more "modern" applications, but it gets you into the same hardness range as 16:1 but for less $$$. It's either 1.5% tin, 1.5% antimony, 97% lead, or 2% tin, 2% antimony, 96% lead. You have to be careful with the ratios of tin vs antimony. If they are off then the alloy can significantly change it's hardness over time.

I haven't experimented with the tin/antimony alloys in detail, although in one of my match rifles I accidentally had a low antimony alloy like that, due to getting a bad 60lb ingot from Metalex once. Even as a relatively hard alloy, my bore diameter paper patched bullets bumped up properly, and shot quite well. There is another fellow at our range, who shoots bore diameter PP bullets in a 40 cal rifle using an alloy with antimony. It seems to work well for him, but I don't know the exact composition.

These days I mostly take the easy way out. I used to buy pre-mixed alloy from RotoMetals because they used to offer free shipping believe it or not. In the last several years I buy 16:1 and 20:1 from a local Canadian supplier.

My general rule is 20:1 for non-pointy bullets, and 16:1 for the pointier ones like Money or elliptical noses that are 50% or more of the bullets total length.

I know of plenty of people using softer alloys too like 25:1.

Chris.
 
Fox said:
Before this whole thread blew up about how I need to change to powder coating the thread was actually about the hardness needed for 50-70 and 43 mauser bullets. The 43 mauser bullets are going to run a bit faster but still probably about 1400-1450fps with smokeless powder and the 50-70 runs right around 1200fps with a 65-70gr compressed load.
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I think you are misunderstanding the statements about powder coating from those of us who also shoot guns that are 100+ years old.
I re-read all the posts and nobody stated you need to powder coat bullets.
What was stated however, was that powder coating is one way to cut down on the frustration of trying to get a perfect lead hardness and at the same time getting the proper lube mix to get an old rifle to shoot accurately while keeping lead fouling at a minimum.
Many of us have been shooting these guns for more than 40 years and have learned a thing or two about it.

Powder coating was a suggested as an alternative, not an absolute.
Cat
 
Fox said:
Ok, so that is not going to hurt the expansion much at all as the hardness with just tin is not going to spike. I assume you do the measurement based on weight, a perfect way would be to use a hot plate and pot to mix and cast ingots for later?
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I would thing the pure lead would " lead up " the barrel pretty quickly...do they have to go that fast? Powder coating would be your friend for life. Or a good copper wash might help.
Honestly, WW, I have found work the best..soft enough..and just hard enough, but I'm under 1000 fps.
Cheers
B
Good luck with your project! , there is alot of knowledge here....that , you WILL NOT find anywhere else.
I've been reloading for about 15 years, most of the good stuff, came from here! Also, Castbootits.com has the good stuff too,and also good people! ( I think that's right)
 
quinnbrian said:
I would thing the pure lead would " lead up " the barrel pretty quickly...do they have to go that fast? Powder coating would be your friend for life. Or a good copper wash might help.
Honestly, WW, I have found work the best..soft enough..and just hard enough, but I'm under 1000 fps.
Cheers
B
Good luck with your project! , there is alot of knowledge here....that , you WILL NOT find anywhere else.
I've been reloading for about 15 years, most of the good stuff, came from here! Also, Castbootits.com has the good stuff too,and also good people! ( I think that's right)
Click to expand...

The concern with powder coating is that there is no lube for black powder. If I run the 43 mauser with smokeless then powder coating would be a great way to go.

It looks like at this slow velocity there is no need for gas checks or hard lead, think muzzleloader velocities. People run dead soft lead muzzleloader bullets up at 1500-1700fps with no leading.
 
Snider shooter said:
Powder coating or copper wash makes the bullets too hard. You want soft lead to slug up and fill the bore. Never had a problem with leading with BP guns with proper bullet lube meant for BP rounds.
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That was my thought, was originally just trying to figure out if soft lead was ok with that velocity, may need to mix it a bit harder for the 43 mauser as it will run faster but still under 1600fps so should be fine with soft lead.
 
I use 50/50 wheel weights and lead flashing for 43 Mauser, 45-70, 577 Snider, 450-577 and 38-55. I try to keep my alloys to a minimum. Alloy hardness I use is 6 bhn , 8bhn,9.5 bhn and 18 bhn. Muzzle loaders, BP cartridge, pistol and mag pistol /rifles. One alloy can handle a far bit of spread in velocity so no need to mix different alloys. 4 alloys is enough for everything I shoot. I lube my bullets with different lubes appropriate to the cartridge.
 
Snider shooter said:
I use 50/50 wheel weights and lead flashing for 43 Mauser, 45-70, 577 Snider, 450-577 and 38-55. I try to keep my alloys to a minimum. Alloy hardness I use is 6 bhn , 8bhn,9.5 bhn and 18 bhn. Muzzle loaders, BP cartridge, pistol and mag pistol /rifles. One alloy can handle a far bit of spread in velocity so no need to mix different alloys. 4 alloys is enough for everything I shoot. I lube my bullets with different lubes appropriate to the cartridge.
Click to expand...

I use almost straight lead with a grease cookie in my 81.4X46R , 9.3X72R drillng and in the 40/65 with a light powder coat and great 200 meter accuracy from the 8.15X45R, and very acceptable speed and accuracy at 100 with the 9.3X72R drilling.
I have heard that powder coating is too hard , bullets don't slug up, and all sorts of stuff.
My results differ using soft lead bullets.
Cat
 
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