Soft Vintage shotgun Market

Yes, I don't know how anyone hit anything before all these screw in changeable chokes came along rendering vintage guns useless. Must have been a lot of hungry folks back in the good ole days, especially if there was only one gun in the house.
 
gunsaholic said:
... only one gun in the house.
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gunsaholic said:
Yes, I don't know how anyone hit anything before all these screw in changeable chokes came along rendering vintage guns useless. Must have been a lot of hungry folks back in the good ole days, especially if there was only one gun in the house.
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There is an interesting thread right now on the double gun forums asking if you had to choose only one choke for all situations, both hunting and sport, what would it be. Over half picked IC.

Take a M12 or a M37 or a Superposed or any number of "vintage guns" that "can't" be used today, open up the chokes and have at it with a better made gun than can be acquired new today for 4 times the money. There is a tendency in any activity to imagine that if only I buy/use the latest and the greatest equipment, I will perform at my best. It's a bunch of hooey. But it drives our consumer society and many of our jobs depend on it.

Part of the fun for many people is chasing the "new". But for others, it is cherishing the old tried and true. Both are fine. Just don't confuse buying the latest with making you a better shot or better hunter. It does neither.

Edit to add: Typically although not exclusively, the vintage gun market is populated by people over 40 who have owned guns for a while....several decades. The choice to get into vintage is often driven by the dawning realization of just how well made those guns are. It's usually a slow process that takes decades. I love to see young hunters and shooters getting into the sport. And I'm cool if they think that they need the latest auto loader to be able to shoot properly. Because 20-30 years from now, a good proportion of them will realize what they have just spent the last 25 years turning their nose up at. Then they too will join the ranks of vintage gun lovers.

Struff, I'd say the downturn, if it can be called that, is at least as much caused by a general economic malaise that in no way is exclusive to vintage guns as anything else.
 
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I shoot vintage shotguns all the time. Like to hold a piece of history and real Americana. No plastic and tacky came patterns for this guy. When the no tox regs came into effect here 15 or so years ago I never enjoyed shooting ducks as much as before. The newbies out there will never know how 1 1/4 ounce of lead 5 shot would fold a mallard at 50 yards.

I have several M12's modified for limited steel shot consumption. Patterns suck and steel kills weird IMO. Glad I got to experience 30 plus years of real duck shooting...when farmers would say shoot all you want cause they don't only eat my grain...they sh!t on it too... Last fall I hunted some field mallards and I had full permission from the awesome landowner...except I had to contact an outfitter and suck hole to him for HIS permission. The guy wasn't even a Canadian...system up here now is all effed up!
 
canvasback said:
...............There is a tendency in any activity to imagine that if only I buy/use the latest and the greatest equipment, I will perform at my best. It's a bunch of hooey..
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Agreed. Completely different story though if you pick up another vintage SxS. Picking up another SxS will make you shoot better. I even think Donald Trump tweeted something to this effect so it must be true. :shotgun:
 
heronfish said:
it's somewhat fascinating to watch the demand and ultimately the value of once revered firearms fall.
Shotguns like 12 gauge auto 5s and superposed have flattened if not fallen. and pre 64 model 70s don't command any attention at a gun show table outside of those who were around in its heyday.

the citori is now perceived as the shotgun to buy and own.
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I have to start going to the gun shows you go to. Sounds like there are no shortage of easy pickins.
 
Struff, maybe its sold now? If I were looking for a 12 ga. o/u and if Brownings fit me then would be all over that gun at that price like a hobo on a ham sandwich. Would open one barrel's choke and use it with steel without a second's hesitation.
 
Superbrad said:
Especially for the M70's alone.....
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So many that diss the pre-64 M70's have never owned one or shot one. . Same with vintage Browning Superposed and Model 12's. . Shoot'em, hunt with them, own them and then tell us how useless they are and how pot metal and plastic and investment cast made in Japan and assembled in Portugal is so much more cool and better to own. . :)
 
Canvasback your post is 100% on point. This superposed is exactly the kind of gun I started the good $ value SxS thread about exact same idea. Good quality shotgun at discounted price because of fixed choke or vintage design. This superposed would be a hell of a bird gun shot as is or opened to the choke of the intended target. Either way solid gun that'll last generations and kill more birds than avian flu if its given a chance to get out of the safe
 
Rod said:
So many that diss the pre-64 M70's have never owned one or shot one. . Same with vintage Browning Superposed and Model 12's. . Shoot'em, hunt with them, own them and then tell us how useless they are and how pot metal and plastic and investment cast made in Japan and assembled in Portugal is so much more cool and better to own. . :)
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if demand for the vanilla varietites of these guns was there, you would see them snapped off the EE. But it just isn't there. Try and sell afield grade model 12 in 12 gauge, it's nearly impossible unless you give it away. the same applies to auto 5s.

I would definitely take a new winchester 70 fwt over a pre. These new ones are fantastic rifles.
 
Great write-up Canvasback! As I read it, so many of your points "hit home with me". I learned to shoot on a now vintage O/U, choked full n full (still have it), and took a lot of ducks and geese in the last days of inexpensive quality lead shells but when the non-toxic shot came into effect, I reluctantly started looking for a steel shot approved gun. So I tried a few different steel shot approved pumps and semis. I've shot a SBE II for 12 seasons now and it's hunted in a few provinces in this great country, but in the last couple of years, I found myself wanting to go back to an o/u..........so I did and with Kents new Bismuth, I had a great year! So back into the world of now vintage wood and blued guns, I happily went. What's even funnier was I received a text message from one of my best childhood friends, stating what a great hunt he had just finished with his new to him vintage sxs(he learned to shoot with his dads old sxs at the same time I was with my dads o/u). I immediately called him, first question How are ya? second question: so how big of smile did you have when you fired that sxs and hit the first duck of the day? His answer: as bright as the sun! So to ask that age old question....can you go home again?
 
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Redsoilreaper said:
Great write-up Canvasback! As I read it, so many of your points "hit home with me". I learned to shoot on a now vintage O/U, choked full n full (still have it), and took a lot of ducks and geese in the last days of inexpensive quality lead shells but when the non-toxic shot came into effect, I reluctantly started looking for a steel shot approved gun. So I tried a few different steel shot approved pumps and semis. I've shot a SBE II for 12 seasons now and it's hunted in a few provinces in this great country, but in the last couple of years, I found myself wanting to go back to an o/u..........so I did and with Kents new Bismuth, I had a great year! So back into the world of now vintage wood and blued guns, I happily went. What's even funnier was I received a text message from one of my best childhood friends, stating what a great hunt he had just finished with his new to him vintage sxs(he learned to shoot with his dads old sxs at the same time I was with my dads o/u). I immediately called him, first question How are ya? second question: so how big of smile did you have when you fired that sxs and hit the first duck of the day? His answer: as bright as the sun! So to ask that age old question....can you go home again?
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Red, I'm glad someone besides me enjoyed my post. I try! :cool:

I grew up with a father who shot an M12 through the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's. He started me with his M12 in 16 gauge. Then he bought me a Wingmaster for Christmas one year when I was about 20. I shot that almost exclusively for the next 25 years. But around when I was 45, I started to notice O/U and SxS, particularly vintage SxS. And after 30 years of hunting, it was a revelation to see and feel the quality in those guns compared to what I was used to. The handling of a well proportioned, well made, 6 pound 16 gauge SxS just can't be beat. And, importantly, at that age, I had the disposable income to go out and buy what I wanted (within reason). I find the other guys I have met who are interested in vintage SxS found their way to it in a similar fashion. Not too many 20 year olds, scraping together enough money for rent each month, are lusting after some grampa gun. But they'll come around in time.

There is a reason that new shotguns that sell for $100,000 are almost all a particular configuration, SxS. It's kind of like why all serious exotic sports cars are mid engine. At some point, when you want and can afford the very best there is, there is a fundamental structure as to what that "best" is.
 
canvasback said:
There is a reason that new shotguns that sell for $100,000 are almost all a particular configuration, SxS. It's kind of like why all serious exotic sports cars are mid engine. At some point, when you want and can afford the very best there is, there is a fundamental structure as to what that "best" is.
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I just may use that statement myself someday. Have your people call my people.
 
canvasback said:
Red, I'm glad someone besides me enjoyed my post. I try! :cool:

I grew up with a father who shot an M12 through the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's. He started me with his M12 in 16 gauge. Then he bought me a Wingmaster for Christmas one year when I was about 20. I shot that almost exclusively for the next 25 years. But around when I was 45, I started to notice O/U and SxS, particularly vintage SxS. And after 30 years of hunting, it was a revelation to see and feel the quality in those guns compared to what I was used to. The handling of a well proportioned, well made, 6 pound 16 gauge SxS just can't be beat. And, importantly, at that age, I had the disposable income to go out and buy what I wanted (within reason). I find the other guys I have met who are interested in vintage SxS found their way to it in a similar fashion. Not too many 20 year olds, scraping together enough money for rent each month, are lusting after some grampa gun. But they'll come around in time.

There is a reason that new shotguns that sell for $100,000 are almost all a particular configuration, SxS. It's kind of like why all serious exotic sports cars are mid engine. At some point, when you want and can afford the very best there is, there is a fundamental structure as to what that "best" is.
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Did someone come to that conclusion ( almost all SxS) through research ? Lot's of $100,000 + O/U's available. Someone must be buying them.
 
Westward1, not nearly the production numbers for O/U as for SxS at the very high end. However to your point, in the $2,000 to $30,000 range, where most shooting sports competition guns are, O/U are massively the first choice.

My real point (which I should have made more clearly) was that there are no semi-autos or pumps or bolt action or any other shotgun action design at the higher end. They are all break action double guns.
 
canvasback said:
Westward1, not nearly the production numbers for O/U as for SxS at the very high end. However to your point, in the $2,000 to $30,000 range, where most shooting sports competition guns are, O/U are massively the first choice.

My real point (which I should have made more clearly) was that there are no semi-autos or pumps or bolt action or any other shotgun action design at the higher end. They are all break action double guns.
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The highest end semi-automatic shotgun would be the Cosmi, Starts around US$20,000 and goes up from there. I've shot one and looked at a couple of others. Amazing guns but definitely an acquired taste.

http://www.cosmi.net/uk/ukhome.htm

http://www.pacificsportingarms.com/cosmi/
 
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