Soldering a scope into the rings
- Thread starter Evanguy
- Start date
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
This is very interesting, thanks for sharing it.
My only input is that Forney 38116 low temp silver solder is the absolute easiest product I have ever used for jobs like this.
Working temperature is almost the same as 50/50, but it is twice as strong and so much easier to use.
Or maybe I just haven't figured out 50/50 yet.
It is also much cheaper and easier to find than Brownell's Hi-force 44.
If you're done with the job, could you please give us an update?
My only input is that Forney 38116 low temp silver solder is the absolute easiest product I have ever used for jobs like this.
Working temperature is almost the same as 50/50, but it is twice as strong and so much easier to use.
Or maybe I just haven't figured out 50/50 yet.
It is also much cheaper and easier to find than Brownell's Hi-force 44.
If you're done with the job, could you please give us an update?
Awesome thanks for the Info, I'll check it out.
And once summer is over I'll have more down time and I'll get back to this project. I will update this thread when I get it soldered in and reassembled
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
You do use flux for "silver" soldering copper together.yea - 1500-1600 for the really high content stuff 90+ (like a jeweler would use)
I've seen but not used silver solder strips and paste - check brownels
You can also check local hvac places for higher (15% or so) content solders, but they probably won't have flux (my hvac neighbor looked at me funny when I asked what kind of flux he was using - apparently you don't use flux in copper to copper?? (who knew!)
People seem concerned about soft (lead/tin) solder for .303 - I don't know myself, but if that is a problem, a 5% silvabrite type should be just fine - you have a lot of surface area there....
The only thing I would be concerned with is that tube distorting with uneven heating/cooling - when I solder a rib to a barrel (muzzle loader) I'll generally heat the whole barrel so there are no cold spots and things can expand/contract more evenly when heated/cooled.....
Maybe see if you can find more on the 'how to" before whipping out the mapp gas - my $0.02
For refrig stuff there is a copper to copper braze that doesn't use flux, however.
I wouldn't try heating the whole tube, as he's just making a connection on two spots, and not the whole length. To take thermal expansion/contraction out of the equation like you're thinking, he'd have to heat the barreled action also; probably slightly differentially. Heating the whole tube otherwise would *cause* stress after it cooled.
You're right about not needing an overly hard solder. With full contact you'd be able to use it for chin ups.
I don't suppose many fellas have been able to pull a "soft" lead bullet apart...
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tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
*May* be able to solder it without disassembly with low temp solder and using wet rags to keep the ocular and objective areas cool.wow loads of replies, thanks. Between them all i believe i have my answer
ill touch base on the questions and info given
- I now Definity plan on disassembling the scope before soldering it, i was thinking the scope may be able to handle ~300* to melt the solder and even more so with the heat being put into the rings. and I'm a little intimidated to take it apart.
- the scope tube is steel and i i wouldn't want to trust jb weld or an epoxy to hold the scope in place on someone else's rifle. I would possible try some quality epoxy if was my own, just to test it out.
- low temp solder is the answer, silver solder would be WAY to hot (above 1000*) and its chambered in 303 British.
- I'm not sure how old the scope is and what is actually inside it, i had assumed there is no seals or nitrogen purging but i don't actually know so it will be coming apart.
- Tiriaq, thanks I'm going to read up a lot on the proper technique, Jim Harrison send me a lot of info and is going to lend me one of this books on disassembling and repairing old scopes. he has also send me other reading material on the subject.
- I've had a few convos with people who thought i was crazy when i started talking about soldering the rings on the scope lol, when i told them it was an old scope i think they were thinking the 70's
- Jim as always, like i said in the Emails, thanks. Always a huge help
-the mounting screws are brass, i made them along with the mount, i know they are soft but i made them large screws. they are an M5 thread so the equivalent of a 11-32tpi standard screw, they just have small heads that seat into a counter sunk hole, so they work as pins and clamps.
- AP thanks of the heads up i will be very carful and not just start cleaning them with glasses cleaner and rag lol, neat story too, I started at a manual machinist and am moving to the finer things of gun smithing
here are some pics of the marking on scope, if anyone knows what it is or has any additional info on this particular scope that would be great
the first 2 pics are on the focus adjuster
the 3rd pic is on the ocular lens
the 4t pic is the elevation adjuster
the 5th pis is one of those little grub screws talked about it post #11
the elevation adjustment has some writing on it hard to read and even harder to see in the pic it says "R. Fufss Steglitz Berlin" i believe
There are some very low temp solders now that I'd consider also.
On reflection I can't think of a single time I've soldered any plumbing without using flux ... more fequently its PVC glue - HA!
It's possible that he was using what you are suggesting, solder with a flux core .. or just a blowhard ding-dong.
I'm not talking heating to soldering temps , just warm enough to prevent hot/cold spots - though interesting point, that tube is going to expand a little no matter what. You might have to solder one "claw" let it cool then the other - or maybe that is just over thinking it.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Add me to the list of individuals who don't have much to contribute, other that a "very nice job!"
- Did you also do the stock and the brass stock hardware?
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
I've never had any success doing that.
However, my last attempts were a lifetime ago.
Once I got brazing and silver soldering figured out I realized there was no need for ribbons or foil. Set the joint up properly and the joining metal will pull right in. Capillary action.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Isn't there a thread in the milsurp section about the work H&H did to mount the scopes?
And anybody got a copy of: An armourer's perspective : .303 No.4 (T) sniper rifle and the Holland & Holland connection by Peter Laidler with Ian Skennerton ?
And anybody got a copy of: An armourer's perspective : .303 No.4 (T) sniper rifle and the Holland & Holland connection by Peter Laidler with Ian Skennerton ?
Jonnyofalltrades
Regular
- Location
- North-central Saskatchewan
After my resounding endorsement of Forney 38116 I remembered one irritating quirk it has. It won't tolerate any excessive heating. It just goes crystally and your sight ramp, etc falls off at the most embarrassing moment.
Oh yeah, and DON'T buy it off of Amazon. Rip off.
Oh yeah, and DON'T buy it off of Amazon. Rip off.
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the stock i got as an semi inletted low grade, it took many hours to finish and the brass hardware i made my self. the nose cap and barrel band is a one off made on a cnc mill. everything else was made on a manual mill or lathe.
these pics are so old i should post some pics now that everything is done but the scope soldering. that will come this month as work slows down
