Some Anshutz 64 questions (UPDATE - recently shot provincials)

Apologies for the thread drift, but YOU axed ME.

Top pic is the usual Weaver T-36 on a 11mm rail - bought off e*** from a guy in MA for half price.

Bottom pic is one of my collection of the big old Tascos that nobody wants these days - which is good news for me. Most .22 target rifles of the 50s and 60s had long scope bases mounted on them as there was an international 100 yard comp in those days that has now been futzed. I have a few of them and well as Unertls, one of which is on one of my other rescued rifles, this time a LH-action BSA MkII Intl. One of the other Tascos is on a BSA MkII RH action...wanna see?

Needless to say they all shoot a whole lot better than I do, even with me shooting the cheapskate 'cooking' GECO' standard 40gr ammunition. I have a few more .22's including the unique Alexander Martin take-down made for a boy just before WW1. You ca nsee that there - go to the bottom of the page - http://www.rifleman.org.uk/BSA_Model_1.html

I'm sorry to say that I can't send images direct to this site, so I rely on the good offices of folks like you to help me out here. I have around 25,000 images of shooting here in UK on our gun club range, including stuff that you will NEVER see in Canada because of our peculiar gun laws.

Best to all

tac
 
Just got to hate the $50 rifle. !!!!!!!
Looks very nice
Well done.

Adrian;
Have you completed the bedding yet? Is the performance any better?
Good on you for trying to improve your match 64 when it needs help.
I have been following this thread from the start, as I also have an early 70,s match 64.
It was in need of TLC and the former owner was not pleased with performance, as I was told.

I found that the rear pillar sleeve, is sitting in a cracked housing of the stock. (Just in the area of the pillar) So bedding and some work on the pillars is what I am thinking on now. I just am reluctant to start carving up this rifle, until I am sure that it is needed and that bedding will improve performance. I cannot get the groupings under 4” @ 100 yards. I have been trying different ammo also. Some are better then others.

Open questions;

How much wood needs to be carved out the stock for the bedding compound?

Comments on the idea of removing the pillar sleeves enlarging the holes in the stock and bedding the sleeves back into place.
 
rslowe said:
Just got to hate the $50 rifle. !!!!!!!
Looks very nice
Well done.

Adrian;
Have you completed the bedding yet? Is the performance any better?
Good on you for trying to improve your match 64 when it needs help.
I have been following this thread from the start, as I also have an early 70,s match 64.
It was in need of TLC and the former owner was not pleased with performance, as I was told.

I found that the rear pillar sleeve, is sitting in a cracked housing of the stock. (Just in the area of the pillar) So bedding and some work on the pillars is what I am thinking on now. I just am reluctant to start carving up this rifle, until I am sure that it is needed and that bedding will improve performance. I cannot get the groupings under 4” @ 100 yards. I have been trying different ammo also. Some are better then others.

Open questions;

How much wood needs to be carved out the stock for the bedding compound?

Comments on the idea of removing the pillar sleeves enlarging the holes in the stock and bedding the sleeves back into place.
Click to expand...

I have completed the bedding and will shoot it tonight or tomorrow and post the results.

I didn't remove any wood. I just put a thin coat of epoxy on the surfaces that contact the receiver.

I would just work epoxy in to the crack and clamp it(you might have to force it open carefully to get epoxy in it) and then bed it if I were you. With the crack fixed you may not need to bed it. But my opinion is bedding it can't hurt.
 
Looking forward to hear how you do this weekend.

I had a conversation today with a locale gunsmith, who I believe knows what he is talking about. He has suggested that there “could” be an issue with the crown and possibly the barrel is shot out /wore out. As both of those concerns can cause grouping issues.
He also suggested that I try some top quality ammo such as “Lupa”. I think that I will ask some of the locale target shooters to have a go with my rifle and their good ammo and just confirm if the problem is the gun or the nut behind it.

Tacfoley; Dose this make sense to your contacts, over there.
 
Put up or shut up time...

Shot after work today. I shot 5 shot groups. On some targets you will see holes and tape from previous shoots...gotta recycle. Now I can come up with all kinds of excuses, but I'll just suck it up. It even rained...but hell, my gun is just a butchered up old thing so I stayed. ;)

Admittedly this experiment is not that scientific. I changed ammo (after advice to stay away from copper-plated crap) to some cheap remington stuff and shot from the prone position. Last time I shot off a bench.

First target...

001-15.jpg


The trigger is horrible! It's lighter but my adjustment of the sear is brutal. Luckily I brought a little screw driver. Second target with a 1/8 turn of the sear adjustment screw...

002-18.jpg


Trigger felt a little better, but the group doesn't show it. I gave it another 1/8 turn.

003-16.jpg


So the trigger is feeling pretty good now. A lot less travel. So at this point I make some efforts to improve my form...which is lousy. I still feel really uncomfortable in this position.

005-9.jpg


Last target accidentally was a 6 shot. I guess I was having fun.

004-10.jpg


Am I happy...not really. I think the gun is good. I really should put it on the bench with bags again and see what it can do. But I figure I'm gonna shoot prone, so I might as well get some practice in.

Labour day weekend I'll shoot at the club. Being indoors with a box of Lapua and a couple crack-shots there to give me some coaching; hopefully I'll shoot some respectable scores.
 
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Maybe mount a scope if possible to see how good it shoots, just to make sure it's peep sight/shooter error? I did with my MK1 FVT before starting the target rifle build.
 
AJSP said:
Maybe mount a scope if possible to see how good it shoots, just to make sure it's peep sight/shooter error? I did with my MK1 FVT before starting the target rifle build.
Click to expand...

I think if I shoot using the bags on the bench like when I sighted it in, I should be able to judge the gun pretty well.


dryfire said:
Adrian
Were you shooting prone off your elbows or off bags - and at what distance ?
Click to expand...

Off my elbows at 20m. I need practice more than anything. I caught myself with my front arm leaned over and not under the rifle after the first two targets. I think that was the reason for the wide horizontal stringing.

I'm gonna shoot again tomorrow and see if I can pull up my socks a bit.
 
If you wish to shoot prone - try it with a bag under the forend and butt or use your non-trigger hand with the butt in the cleft between thumb and fingers. By tensioning your hand you can make elevation changes.
For true TR fashion you might try a target sling and get a glove. You'll probably want to get a jacket too. The list just gets longer.
All being well with that rifle it should punch out the X ring of that target at 20m.
 
dryfire said:
If you wish to shoot prone - try it with a bag under the forend and butt or use your non-trigger hand with the butt in the cleft between thumb and fingers. By tensioning your hand you can make elevation changes.
For true TR fashion you might try a target sling and get a glove. You'll probably want to get a jacket too. The list just gets longer.
All being well with that rifle it should punch out the X ring of that target at 20m.
Click to expand...

I see all the guys at the club have the jackets and gloves. Someday soon, for now I'm not really competing so I'll just work on form.
 
rifle test pics

I took my rifle out again today and shot 20m off a bench and sandbags to prove the rifle. This is a 5 shot group with the peep sights.

031-1.jpg


032-2.jpg


Not too shabby. I adjusted it down a click and right a couple clicks and shot a round. 8 good shots. Target #10 was a mental lapse and felt bad right away.

029-1.jpg


I can't believe how much my lower back muscles and left shoulder ached just from shooting these past couple days. I've gotta get in shape...
 
rslowe said:
Looking good
Now the challenge is to take that good grouping at 20 m and do the same at 100 m.
I am still working on that too.
Click to expand...

I assume you're talking open sights too. So how does that work? Do you change anything? (other than your rear sight settings I mean) Front sight inserts? What size is the target?
 
Use a correspondingly larger target to give you a larger aiming black. eg 2" black at 20m, then 10" black at 100m. You'll also need about 8 minutes of come-up and probably some windage adjustment.
Targets that are scaled for various distances can be acquired from various places. ISSF and NRA standard. You may want to see what the guys at your club are shooting on. I shoot NRA A23s (50yd) and ISSF for 50,100,200m.
If you are going to shoot both distances frequently you may want to start a log to record settings and other relevant data -ammo type, settings relative to light and atmospheric conditions.

You shouldn't need to change the insert if the target is equivalent in size.
 
dryfire said:
If you wish to shoot prone - try it with a bag under the forend and butt or use your non-trigger hand with the butt in the cleft between thumb and fingers. By tensioning your hand you can make elevation changes.

You are not describing prone shooting.
The common shooting position, prone, means no rests. You lay on your tummy, elbows on the ground supporting the rifle.
A sling and gloves, yes.
A shooting coat with elbow and shoulder pads, yes.
Anything supporting the rifle to the ground, no.
Click to expand...
 
rslowe said:
Looking forward to hear how you do this weekend.

I had a conversation today with a locale gunsmith, who I believe knows what he is talking about. He has suggested that there “could” be an issue with the crown and possibly the barrel is shot out /wore out. As both of those concerns can cause grouping issues.
He also suggested that I try some top quality ammo such as “Lupa”. I think that I will ask some of the locale target shooters to have a go with my rifle and their good ammo and just confirm if the problem is the gun or the nut behind it.

Tacfoley; Dose this make sense to your contacts, over there.
Click to expand...

Well, here's my take, although I've only really taken up target rifle as such in 1974, and I'm no maven.

1. ANY damage to the crown of ANY barrel is going to effect accuracy - from throwing the bullet off course as it leaves the muzzle from gas escaping around the base in an unequal fashion.

2. Most target rifles of my acquaintance are cleaned from the chamber end, to avoid this damage happening from over-energetic use of a pull-through cleaner - anathema to a target shooter. This is because of the difficulty in pulling through in a dead-straight line without the string touching the crown. As my good friend carlos diopter here would tell you, our Swiss rifle shooters, who DID use the issue pull-through, employed a special technique for pull-though use. They put the loop of the pull-though on a door handle, and pulled the gun away from the door in a straight line.....sounds wacky, I know, but all our Swiss barrels look like new, even, in my case, after 116 and 68 years.

As for shooting out an Anschutz barrel - well, mine was a club gun from around 1970 until it was last shot there many years later. The GFO knows how many shots that had down the barrel, and like all my other .22s, it's a far better shooter than I can manage, even with a rest front and rear.

Even my 1937 .22 Mauser can shoot ten-shot groups under 10mm at 50mm with its little 2.5 power scope.

So I'd call that :bsFlag:

So the upshot is that every post you put here shows us an improving score as you get used to shooting it, and remember that a premium barrel gun like this needs premium or good ammunition. Using somebody elses shows that you are thinking.... Most Anschutz have a liking for LAPUA SK Magazine, or even SK match if you pocket is up to it. Also note that the firing pin spring is also VERY important on a good rimfire - and to ensure that the strike effect is the same every time, no oil is used to lubricate it - only lighter fluid, same as the trigger assembly - this has been mentioned already. Changing out the spring might be a plan, as can getting hold of an Anschutz bolt storer - a spiffy piece of high-priced blue plastic that you insert the bolt into, and then rotate, thus easing the spring.

My $0.02

tac
swissrifles.com
 
Thanks H4831 - I thought the 2 explanations I gave were explicit enough! I think you'd have a big argument from the F-Class crowd;)
dryfire said:
If you wish to shoot prone - try it with a bag under the forend and butt or use your non-trigger hand with the butt in the cleft between thumb and fingers. By tensioning your hand you can make elevation changes.
For true TR fashion you might try a target sling and get a glove. You'll probably want to get a jacket too. The list just gets longer.
All being well with that rifle it should punch out the X ring of that target at 20m.
Click to expand...
 
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