Some guns just work and some are stubborn...

Ardent

Ardent

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Northern BC, Coastal BC, or Africa. Depends on the
Until recently, I had a rule, that is if a gun didn't work immediately, or at least show strong promise, I would sell/trade it. Probably the best gun I've ever owned in this regard is my .375 H&H Ruger RSM, that thing just hits anything I shoot at with it, with any load, and is the only conventional/non-match sights iron sighted rifle I can shoot sub-moa without trouble. A keeper.

Now, I have a gun I've stocked to match that beautiful big mauser, a miniature version, being a CZ527 .22 Hornet stocked in the same American style, with the same tone figured walnut and iron sights. I've scoped this one with a Leupold 3-9X40, given its light varmint application. The first outing I had it on to the range produced 3/4" groups, with factory 46gr SP and 45gr HP Winchester. Didn't seem to care which was being fired. Fantastic stuff for a Hornet!

I was looking forward to handloading for it, and stocking it in the new walnut with a good bedding job and free floated. Before the new stock was finished, I tried again, with handloads, and had abysmal results. I've done a lot of handloading, including match, so I was at a loss for an explanation. 'Lil Gun, a powder that has been a shining star in all my "small" guns, seemed to make this gun throw a tantrum. Nothing with 'Lil Gun would shoot. Three different bullets, different loads...

So, I put away the handloads... I restocked it, free floated and bedded, and took it back with the factory ammo that had been shooting so well (for a Hornet, .75" is top notch). Well, now it shot .37"! Almost 1/3rd MOA, more than I ever hoped for, and to make things better the bughole groups were elongated ever so slightly in the vertical, indicating more consistent velocities would likely render this a 1/4 MOA/0.25" Hornet, almost a mythical creature! So, I loaded up new bullet weights, powder weights, OAL lengths and tried to give 'Lil Gun another shot in the new improved platform... groups grew this afternoon under these conditions to a full inch and a half, a couple approached 2". Sigh... back to the reloading bench.

Next powder up is IMR 4227, and will try reducing the OAL, as the Winchester factory loads are pretty stubby, and will try tighter crimp too. I've never had a rifle so confounding, as there seems almost no reason it shoots factory Winchester offerings so incredibly well but has a distaste for handloads. Pretty sure I should start chasing low end, lower pressure loads, as factory ammo's kept pretty mild in the Hornet. Though even starting loads from the book wouldn't shoot... I'm almost getting to frustrated with this lil gem, it's a beautiful rifle, and somewhere in it lies a 0.25" Hornet. Coaxing it out will take awhile... but once I find that load, I'll just stick to it.

What your most confounding gun?
 
I had two Hornets one was a savage 23D the other a Sako 78 both were very picky on the loads.I could not make them shoot.I finally got some 1680 powder and I could not get them to shoot over an inch.A friend of mine had a Bruno doing the same and 1680 worked in that also.If you can still get some its worth a try.
 
I've had a couple. One I ended up getting to shoot but the other one I gave up on and convinced myself the barrel is shot out.

I have a 7mm ultra mag I bought lightly used a couple years ago. At $90 a box for factory ammo, I didnt want to waste too much ammo getting it sighted in seeing if it would shoot. Factory ammo performed "average" at maybe 1-1.5'' groups. With some other guns I own, it's taken 300+ rounds to get a load I'm happy with. I didnt want to have to do that with this gun. I had it at the range probably 10 times with various loads and everytime I left the range I was frustrated. Eventually I found the sweet spot and now it'll shoot 5 bullets into a big raged hole at 100 yards even with a factory barrel.

I bought a Ruger #1 last spring which had been rechambered in 257wby. I bought it as a donor for a future project but figured it would be nice to get it shooting. After a few visits to the range I just gave up. I tried a few different loads, floated the forarm, played with the tension in the forarm screw, cleaned the crap out of it, etc.
No matter what I tried, it sprayed bullets.

I've tried loading for a friends 300wby but had a tough time getting that to shoot. I just dont think Im cut out for reloading Weatherby cartridges.
 
I have 4 Remmy 700 rifles. 223, 243, 270 & 30-06.

The 243 I got from my dad who bought it new in '71 - Always has been a good shooter.

The 270 I got when I was 18... I was working at a gas station in Norhtern SK. A fella drove up, he was completely out of $$$ and needed fuel to get to PA and some $$$ to get him home. I filled up his car & took 2 gerry cans off the shelf (I filled them too) and gave him $40 ( I put the fuel on my account at the filling station)... Best deal I ever made! Real good shooter!

The 30-06 I got this spring..... I had a HECK of a time to find ammo to shoot out of it. Nothing off the shelf would group under 2" @ 100.... 350 handloads later (plus a bedding and a floating and then an un-floating) I finally got it at .74" (outside to outside measurements) It only shoots this one load really well. The rest are medicore.

The .223 I got this fall (for p-dogs in the spring) Everything I have tried in it groups under an 1.5". I was at the range today trying to finalize a load for it.... 25.5gr of Benchmark pushing a 50gr Nosler BT.... about .63" at 200y..... Its a shooter too!!

Seems like every 1 out of 4 firearm I own need a little frickin with like this..... I only bother if I REALLY like the firearm (like in the case of the 30-06). Usually if I can't get them to shoot I get rid of them pretty quick.

I guess this is why they call it an addiction! :D

Cheers!
 
.22 Hornets can be really frustrating--I have had a couple that I never could get to shoot well and a couple that were really good. Main issue with a standard hornet is the long shoulder--the cases actually headspace on the rim--if there is much variation in the rim thickness it will affect the accuracy and case life. The reason most get reamed to the K hornet is not for more velocity--but rather to improve consistency for accuracy and to improve case life. I had best accuracy with sierrai 45 grain hornet bullets and with either 4227 or win 296.

FWIW, 44Bore
 
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It's very easy to shoot up enough components to pay for a good barrel. With factory loads it's easy to do that in a weekend. Why I have to keep relearning that lesson is one of life's great mysteries.:confused:
Across the board, the rifles that shot the best, shot well right out of the gate. The odds start dropping badly after that.
It's possible to find a magic load for a crumby rifle, but it's also possible to teach a poodle to tree cougars. It's much easier to start with the right dog.
 
For some reason at times 10 lbs upward pressure on the bbl just seems to work when all else fails.
Oh and the Hornet can just be picky.
Don
 
I bought a used Savage long action detachable mag synthetic stock gun in 300WM used at a gun show in Brandon. It looked in good condition, bore looked immaculate. Stock looked utilitarian. I put a Leupold scope on it and bought some Hornady 165 gr factory ammo. Thought it would make a good long range deer hunting rifle that would also cover some larger animals if I ever got the chance. Sighted it in, then started testing at 200 yards. Couldn't get a good group for the life of me. Tried Federal 180's, still poor results. Tried Hornady 180's, no better. Changed the stock, as I noticed it was rubbing the bluing off the bottom of the barrel. Used pillars, bedded the action in epoxy. Still not shooting well. Typically 6-8" groups at 200 yards. The groups looked like a foot print. Taller than wide. Swapped out the scope for another. No improvement. Changed the trigger somewhere in there too. Began to question my own ability to shoot. Thought magnum's might require some sort of special zen state of mind to fire. Finally changed the barrel. Had Dennis Sorenson rechamber a heavy 308 barrel to 300WM and install it. Now, its shooting 5 shot groups under an inch at 100 yards. Its not picky about ammo either. So basically I took a $350 rifle and shoot a couple of hundred dollars worth of ammo through it to discover its NFG, changed the stock, trigger and eventually the barrel to get it to shoot right. Was it worth it? I'm not sure, but what else was I supposed to do with this rifle other than sell it for parts? Its one heavy rifle now, but I can pretty much guarantee you I can hit a dime at 100 yards with it first shot now.
 
Well, I tried a few things, and got it sub 1/2MOA today, on a diet of IMR 4227. The load is very light, likely even slightly lighter than the factory stuff that performed so well. Shorter OAL and tighter crimp also seemed to work wonders on this little Hornet. Will focus on the IMR 4227 load and work either side of it to find an accuracy node. Managed to get 'Lil Gun down to an inch doing the same to OAL and crimp, but that's still not good enough to chase for what I'm after so IMR 4227 it is.
 
Grizzlypeg,
I've got similar stories, which also start out "I bought a USED whatever and eventually end "Then I changed the barrel". It's got to where I price a new pipe into every used purchase, if I'm not saving enough from new price to buy a barrel I'll buy it new and hope for the best.
 
I've had similar results with one rifle, using several different barrels. I have a Savage short action, and I have barrels in .223, .308, 7mm WSM, and .250 Sav. All of those barrels will fire anything I feed them into less than 1 MOA, except the .250 barrel. I've tried hundreds of .250 handloads and factory rounds, and the best grouping I've gotten is 1.12," which is not what I'm used to with a Shilen barrel. I'm still working away at it, but it's been disappointing so far.

Erik.
 
Angus: I recommend going back to Lil Gun and push the charges higher. I have an Anschutz that was grouping rounds at 1.5" at 100m and when I pushed the load past 13.0 grains the groups tightened up dramatically to .5" I think that Lil gun needs to get the upper ends of pressure (at least what a hornet can provide) and then it will shoot.
 
katiedoe said:
Hey, seems that guns are just like men. Some work, but most are just stubborn...:p
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Nope, all rifles are female. Some are just easier than others. Everyone knows that.:p The debate becomes "which of the non easy, difficult, high maintenance ones are worth the trouble"

Oh, and welcome to the forum.
 
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Glock4ever said:
Angus: I recommend going back to Lil Gun and push the charges higher. I have an Anschutz that was grouping rounds at 1.5" at 100m and when I pushed the load past 13.0 grains the groups tightened up dramatically to .5" I think that Lil gun needs to get the upper ends of pressure (at least what a hornet can provide) and then it will shoot.
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... thanks, will give it a go, stopped at 12.5grs I think, pressure still OK.
 
Glad to see you got it woring. my brno wuld not group, i tred everythign (bedding, free floating, forend pressure) and it would not do any better than 2".

One day, by accident, I loaded ammo 5 grains lighter than what I intended. made a boo boo with the balance beam scale. 1/2"

A light load of WW680 worked like a charm.
 
A: When I was working the loads with lil gun it is deceptive but dramatic. Lower charges (at least from what I could see) would spray them all over the place - 2-3" at 100m which for an Anschutz is pretty much unacceptable. As soon as I got to about 13.0 grains of powder, the rifle started to group very tightly - it could be because I am using a pistol primer but I think the pressures weren't high enough. I tried it with 3 bullets so far and the same result (Vmax 40 grain, Sierra HP 40 grain, and Sierra Hornet 40 grain). You may be experiencing the same thing. There is not enough space in the case of a hornet to put too much lil gun in - pressures will remain safe even if powder is flowing out of the top.
 
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