Some old Ammo

7.62x25 will be bottlenecked. Need a known cartridge beside to know what size these cartridges are.
 
im going to guess these are German 9x19 steel case kind of gives it away

looking it up it may have steel cored projectiles that's why it has a longer bullet than standard 9mm fmj
 
Last edited:
Machine pistol ammo ( sub machine gun ) hotter łoad than standard pistol ammo .
Should be all right for newer pistols ( if it will cycle from your mag to chamber without hanging up and jamming ) older smaller pocket sized pistols not so much. Check to be shure it will take P+P I believe . Good collectors ammo depending on head stamps .
 
The rounds and headstamps in the first post are WW2 era German. 1938 and 1943. With no box they aren’t really worth much but I wouldn’t shoot them.

I don’t believe it’s any hotter. I e owned hundreds of boxes of WW2 German Ammo and all the 9mm was the same.
 
The steel cased, black tip ammo is definitely hotter. I've seen a barrel on a P35 bulged by that stuff and then the fool blew a bunch of parts of the slide of a very nice matching CYq P38 with the same stuff. One of the embarrassing foolish things I did back in the sixties.

All of that ammo likely has corrosive primers as well.

Don't shoot it just because it goes bang, before doing some due diligence on the headstamps. It would work fine in some of the 9mm carbines on the market.
 
"Machine pistol ammo ( sub machine gun ) hotter łoad than standard pistol ammo"

No, no, no, no, no. That is standard German WWII 9x19 ammo, loaded for both pistols and SMGs. How stupid would an army have to be to issue SMG ammo that would blow up pistols in the same caliber, and widely distribute both guns???
 
jonnyc said:
"Machine pistol ammo ( sub machine gun ) hotter łoad than standard pistol ammo"

No, no, no, no, no. That is standard German WWII 9x19 ammo, loaded for both pistols and SMGs. How stupid would an army have to be to issue SMG ammo that would blow up pistols in the same caliber, and widely distribute both guns???
Click to expand...

The British did this with the 303 Brit ammo, 303 +P essentially.

"In 1938 the Mark VIII round was approved to obtain greater range from the Vickers machine gun. The primary change was the addition of a boat-tail and slightly more propellant, giving a muzzle velocity of 2550 ft/s (780 m/s) and somewhat better ballistics. Chamber pressure was higher, at 40,000–42,000 lbf/in² (about 280 MPa), making it suitable for firing only from the machine gun. "
 
The only reason that Mk.VIII ammunition was not suitable for use in rifles was because the trajectory/ballistic properties were so different from Mk.VII/VIIZ that the sight calibrations weren't accurate.
 
Thanks for all the information! It makes sense as being WW2 German. The fellow had a bunch of war dated Mauser stuff too. I’ll just keep it for a souvenir.
Cheers
 
tiriaq said:
The only reason that Mk.VIII ammunition was not suitable for use in rifles was because the trajectory/ballistic properties were so different from Mk.VII/VIIZ that the sight calibrations weren't accurate.
Click to expand...

Then why do I keep reading that they were loaded hotter? I also read that they were fine in the No 4 rifles but should not be shot in older models.
 
jonnyc said:
"Machine pistol ammo ( sub machine gun ) hotter łoad than standard pistol ammo"

No, no, no, no, no. That is standard German WWII 9x19 ammo, loaded for both pistols and SMGs. How stupid would an army have to be to issue SMG ammo that would blow up pistols in the same caliber, and widely distribute both guns???
Click to expand...

This is a cut and paste. Total hearsay

A WW2 vet once explained German 9mm ammo to me in the simple terms that all GIs are fond of.

There was a sharp pointed bullet load, brass case, that was to be used in Luger pistols because it was powerful enough to function the Luger action reliably.
The boxes this stuff came in were packed 16 rounds in a box that was marked 'For P-08 Pistol'

There was a rounded bullet, brass case load that was intended for P-38 pistols and all the other 9mm handguns they used, Hi-Powers, Radoms, etc.
Same 16 round boxes only they were marked something like 'Service Load for Pistols.'

There was a rounded bullet load with a blackened case that was for use in submachineguns ONLY, the stuff would break a pistol very quickly with very few shots.
This stuff was packed in boxes of 64 rounds and had German markings that said something like 'Attention, For Submachinegun Use ONLY!'

Late in the war, there was a pointed bullet load with a mild steel or aluminum case that was intended for use in everything 9mm.
This stuff came packed loose in paper wraps of around 500 rounds inside tin lined wooden boxes.

Anyway, that came out of the mouth of someone who was there.
 
emmab said:
The fellow had a bunch of war dated Mauser stuff too. I’ll just keep it for a souvenir.
Cheers
Click to expand...

What did he have for Mauser ammo???
When I picked up my Krag. It came with a few boxes of 6.5x55

ay4tXl6.jpg
 
Fox said:
Then why do I keep reading that they were loaded hotter? I also read that they were fine in the No 4 rifles but should not be shot in older models.
Click to expand...

From Wikipedia:

Mark VIIIz[edit]
In 1938 the Mark VIIIz "streamline ammunition" round was approved to obtain greater range from the Vickers machine gun.[21] The streamlined bullet was based on the 7.5×55mm Swiss GP11 projectiles and slightly longer and heavier than the Mk VII bullet at 175 gr (11.34 g), the primary difference was the addition of a boat-tail at the end of the bullet and using 37 to 41 gr (2.40 to 2.66 g) of nitrocellulose smokeless powder as propellant in the case of the Mk VIIIz, giving a muzzle velocity of 2,525 ft/s (770 m/s). As a result, the chamber pressure was higher, at 40,000 to 42,000 psi (275.8 to 289.6 MPa), depending upon loading, compared to the 39,000 psi (268.9 MPa) of the Mark VII(z) round.[[22][23] The Mark VIIIz streamline ammunition had a maximum range of approximately 4,500 yd (4,115 m).[24] Mk VIIIz ammunition was described as being for "All suitably-sighted .303-inch small arms and machine guns" – rifles and Bren guns were proofed at 50,000 psi (344.7 MPa) – but caused significant bore erosion in weapons formerly using Mk VII cordite, ascribed to the channelling effect of the boat-tail projectile. As a result, it was prohibited from general use with rifles and light machine guns except when low flash was important and in emergencies[25] As a consequence of the official prohibition, ordnance personnel reported that every man that could get his hands on Mk VIIIz ammunition promptly used it in his own rifle.[21]
Click to expand...

The main differences were the bullet (flat base versus boat tailed) and the propellant (cordite versus nitrocellulose).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom