Someone know what's Hornady's recipe in 6.5creed?

[wcat]

Hi,
I've read somewhere that when Hornady made the 140gr ELD-M in 6.5 creedmoor in it's debut, that they printed the component & charge of their ammo somewhere on the box.
Can someone testify that? If so, do anyone know what it was?
It's my 1st rifle in 6.5cm, a Bergara hmr, and for the 1st time since I reload (over 30yrs), a factory load can keep up to my reloads, and can even be better accuracy-wise on a given day.
So I'm really curious what powder and charge they are using.
I could open up one and get the charge, but I'll still be in the black about the powder brand.
Anyone knows?
Thanks !

 

[Potashminer]

That's pretty amazing what you describe - I had read that many ammo makers use bulk powders that they add stuff to, to get the burn rate and pressure level that they want - using powders that are not normally packaged for reloader's to purchase. So, if what you say is correct, would be interesting to know what they used. You would think there would have to be a monetary benefit for Hornady to have a reloader get that particular bullet, case, primer and powder to use - I cannot see them giving out that information otherwise - most corporations not known for "goodness of their heart".

I had been under impression that factory ammo loaded 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, might be using different batch of powder today - but identical pressure developed - and cases do not have to be made the same place (or even on same continent), but will have same head stamp, and I do not know that primers or bullets used have to be the same as offered for sale to reloaders - as used in the latest ammo batch they offer for sale. Was why I thought "lot" numbers were important - to be the same to each other, but not necessarily the same as the previous or next "lot" made.

 

[Lefty Dick]

They without a doubt use a canister grade propellant, that isn’t available to reloaders.

Think rail cars full of powder.

 

[Danol]

I’ve read somewhere online it’s h4350 at 41.5grs. I’ve tried it out and it shot well but as always, work up your load.
Initially I was hesitant to load 41.5gr because Hornadys data is well below it. People state Hornady data is very conservative compared to other load data’s.

 

[wcat]

I just did a little.research and found an article that say that hornady print its 6.5 creed on the boxes. Article is dated 2014
Take a look:

 

[Jon87]

I've also heard it was H4350. I've also heard Hornady changes powders from time to time so who knows. My handholds with 41.8gr of H4350, hornady brass, and 143 eld-x are within 25 fps of the factory Precision Hunter ammo though for what it's worth. Maybe you got lucky and hit a nice accuracy node with the factory stuff and your rifle.

 

[Potashminer]

I’ve read somewhere online it’s h4350 at 41.5grs. I’ve tried it out and it shot well but as always, work up your load.
Initially I was hesitant to load 41.5gr because Hornadys data is well below it. People state Hornady data is very conservative compared to other load data’s.

Is good advice above - those that simply take a load - from any source - and load it up without working up to that level - have never had a bolt frozen shut and then the bolt handle break off from pounding on it to open that bolt - so left with broken off handle and bolt still frozen shut. Never yet happened to me, but did to my neighbour - on his VERY FIRST hand load - I think he was using a powder recommended by an acquaintance. Taught me, Big time, to start low and work up in small steps - watching for warning signs to start to show - rather than finding out, all at once, that the load, in your gun, is "over" some limit. Usually does not matter what someone else reports doing or getting with their stuff - you are "testing" with your stuff - which they did not use.

 

[Janeau]

Hi,
I've read somewhere that when Hornady made the 140gr ELD-M in 6.5 creedmoor in it's debut, that they printed the component & charge of their ammo somewhere on the box.
Can someone testify that? If so, do anyone know what it was?
It's my 1st rifle in 6.5cm, a Bergara hmr, and for the 1st time since I reload (over 30yrs), a factory load can keep up to my reloads, and can even be better accuracy-wise on a given day.
So I'm really curious what powder and charge they are using.
I could open up one and get the charge, but I'll still be in the black about the powder brand.
Anyone knows?
Thanks !

Yes, it was printed on the original ammo box when they introduced the cartridge. They offered load with Amax bullet with 120 and 140 grains bullet.
Varget was the original powder and they changed to H4350 thereafter because of some over pressure report.
120 grains Amax

140 Amax


Here from 2008.. cartridge was just out when this was written..

Background of Cartridge
The new cartridge was conceptualized by Dave Emary, Hornady’s Senior Ballistician, and Dennis DeMille, General Manager of Creedmoor® Sports and two-time NRA National High Power Rifle Champion. Dave and Dennis wanted to provide factory-loaded ammo that would be 100% competitive with any High Power chambering, including the 6XC and 6.5×47 Lapua. The 6.5 Creedmoor was purpose-built for match rifles, including the Tubb 2000 and DPMS/Panther Arms LR Series. Its case is shorter than the 260 Remington, so you can load even the longest bullets into .308-Win length magazines. Pushing a 120gr Amax at 3000+ fps, the 6.5 Creedmoor offers a nice, flat trajectory plus good wind-bucking ability. Dennis Demille has used the prototype cartridge for many months now in a Tubb 2000 rifle. He says, the load is “moderate and very reliable. There have been no issues with stiff bolt lift or primer cratering.” The factory ammo runs “under 60,000 psi” according to Emary, and uses Hodgdon H4350 powder–43.5 grains with the 120 Amax and 41.2 grains with the 140 Amax.

 

[B]

Hornady has been using off-the-shelf components for the majority of their ammunition since the beginning. They manufacturer nothing but the bullets. Aside from Superformance loads which are each supposedly tailored with different proprietary powders, you can just email and ask rather than get incorrect, incomplete or outdated information here. If you ask and can include your lot number they will tell you exactly what was used.

 

[Jon87]

Hornady has been using off-the-shelf components for the majority of their ammunition since the beginning. They manufacturer nothing but the bullets. Aside from Superformance loads which are each supposedly tailored with different proprietary powders, you can just email and ask rather than get incorrect, incomplete or outdated information here. If you ask and can include your lot number they will tell you exactly what was used.

Interesting. I didn't realize they'd share that. I have some factory 7PRC ammo that seems a little hot. I'll check that out.

 

[B]

^I found out through similar concerns as you. I was getting pierced primers and wanted to confirm they had no issues reported. They not only told me no issues but shared the recipe. I have asked a couple more times for other reasons since. Great customer service from those folks.

 

[JJ-65]

Pulled apart some early 6.5 CM factory ammo loaded with 140gr AMax bullets. They were charged with 43.5 grs of what looked like H 4350. I have used 43.5 grs of H 4350 with bullets weights from 120grs thru 140grs in many 6.5 CM rifles over the years. No pressure signs and the primer pockets stay tight.

 

[FLHTCUI]

Yes, it was printed on the original ammo box when they introduced the cartridge. They offered load with Amax bullet with 120 and 140 grains bullet.
Varget was the original powder and they changed to H4350 thereafter because of some over pressure report.
120 grains Amax
View attachment 688692
140 Amax
View attachment 688693

Here from 2008.. cartridge was just out when this was written..

Background of Cartridge
The new cartridge was conceptualized by Dave Emary, Hornady’s Senior Ballistician, and Dennis DeMille, General Manager of Creedmoor® Sports and two-time NRA National High Power Rifle Champion. Dave and Dennis wanted to provide factory-loaded ammo that would be 100% competitive with any High Power chambering, including the 6XC and 6.5×47 Lapua. The 6.5 Creedmoor was purpose-built for match rifles, including the Tubb 2000 and DPMS/Panther Arms LR Series. Its case is shorter than the 260 Remington, so you can load even the longest bullets into .308-Win length magazines. Pushing a 120gr Amax at 3000+ fps, the 6.5 Creedmoor offers a nice, flat trajectory plus good wind-bucking ability. Dennis Demille has used the prototype cartridge for many months now in a Tubb 2000 rifle. He says, the load is “moderate and very reliable. There have been no issues with stiff bolt lift or primer cratering.” The factory ammo runs “under 60,000 psi” according to Emary, and uses Hodgdon H4350 powder–43.5 grains with the 120 Amax and 41.2 grains with the 140 Amax.

Amazing sharing of information that should be easy to find, yet when hidden in plain site is .......
Thanks for sharing that as I too have a 6.5 CM and will be writing this information down for later cross referencing.
Rob

 

[wcat]

Yes, it was printed on the original ammo box when they introduced the cartridge. They offered load with Amax bullet with 120 and 140 grains bullet.
Varget was the original powder and they changed to H4350 thereafter because of some over pressure report.
120 grains Amax
View attachment 688692
140 Amax
View attachment 688693

Here from 2008.. cartridge was just out when this was written..

Background of Cartridge
The new cartridge was conceptualized by Dave Emary, Hornady’s Senior Ballistician, and Dennis DeMille, General Manager of Creedmoor® Sports and two-time NRA National High Power Rifle Champion. Dave and Dennis wanted to provide factory-loaded ammo that would be 100% competitive with any High Power chambering, including the 6XC and 6.5×47 Lapua. The 6.5 Creedmoor was purpose-built for match rifles, including the Tubb 2000 and DPMS/Panther Arms LR Series. Its case is shorter than the 260 Remington, so you can load even the longest bullets into .308-Win length magazines. Pushing a 120gr Amax at 3000+ fps, the 6.5 Creedmoor offers a nice, flat trajectory plus good wind-bucking ability. Dennis Demille has used the prototype cartridge for many months now in a Tubb 2000 rifle. He says, the load is “moderate and very reliable. There have been no issues with stiff bolt lift or primer cratering.” The factory ammo runs “under 60,000 psi” according to Emary, and uses Hodgdon H4350 powder–43.5 grains with the 120 Amax and 41.2 grains with the 140 Amax.

So it was true. Thanks Janeau!

 

[wcat]

I followed mr B advice and wrote to Hornady today, asking what components & powder charge used in that specific lot of factory ammo.
Really hoping to have a good answer.

 

[Jon87]

I followed mr B advice and wrote to Hornady today, asking what components & powder charge used in that specific lot of factory ammo.
Really hoping to have a good answer.

I asked about 7PRC. They would only tell me the minimum charge weight (72.5gr) and that the powder is a non-commercial blend. Not very helpful

 

[jethunter]

That's pretty amazing what you describe - I had read that many ammo makers use bulk powders that they add stuff to, to get the burn rate and pressure level that they want - using powders that are not normally packaged for reloader's to purchase. So, if what you say is correct, would be interesting to know what they used. You would think there would have to be a monetary benefit for Hornady to have a reloader get that particular bullet, case, primer and powder to use - I cannot see them giving out that information otherwise - most corporations not known for "goodness of their heart".

I had been under impression that factory ammo loaded 5 years ago, or 10 years ago, might be using different batch of powder today - but identical pressure developed - and cases do not have to be made the same place (or even on same continent), but will have same head stamp, and I do not know that primers or bullets used have to be the same as offered for sale to reloaders - as used in the latest ammo batch they offer for sale. Was why I thought "lot" numbers were important - to be the same to each other, but not necessarily the same as the previous or next "lot" made.

Ammo makers don't say what powder they use because it changes over time.

 

[bearhunter]

This is a copy and paste from a site I looked at around 5 years back.

I've used this load in several different rifles chambered for the 6.5CM and it seems to be one of those "universal" loads that just works well in any rifle.

No signs of pressure and lots of reloads out of the cases, no matter who made them.

It's lighter than what's listed on those boxes but velocities are very close.

140 ELD-M
42.8 H4350
Federal 210
Hornady Brass
COAL 2.805 (.015 off lands)

Getting 2910 avg with an SD of 12 out of a 28" Bartlein Barrel with groups consistently under .5 MOA,

 

[wcat]

Well I got the reply from Hornady this morning, unfortunatly it wasn't helpful:

"We run proprietary powder blends to achieve the velocity and pressure we want for factory ammo Which unfortunately means even if I shared the powder and charge weight you would not be able to get the powder to match the factory ammo."

 

[bearhunter]

Well I got the reply from Hornady this morning, unfortunatly it wasn't helpful:

"We run proprietary powder blends to achieve the velocity and pressure we want for factory ammo Which unfortunately means even if I shared the powder and charge weight you would not be able to get the powder to match the factory ammo."

The load listed below in post #18 will give you velocities within 20-50fps and has never failed to be accurate in any rifle I've used it in or of those that use it in their rifles for everything from paper punching to hunting.