Something on the "wussy" M1 Carbine

I used my carbine on a deer this fall but before I did that I tested it on a 6" treated fence post at 100 yds... 110 gr softpoints handloaded to 1800 fps gave total penetration with big wood splinters out the back side.

I shot a standing deer at about 80 yrds. Full penetration, broke ribs on both sides, in the four jumps the deer made before piling up blood could be seen spraying out of the exit wound...Not gonna let anybody shoot me with a frozen coat on under a mile distance LOL.
 
When used within it's design parameters, the carbine is just fine. If you're under 100 yards with a carbine, you're pretty much golden, especially since the development of modern lubricants. As a SHTF firearm, it's still a very valid choice, since self defense pretty much predicates closer ranges than traditional battle ranges and the volume of ammunition that can be easily carried is amazing.
 
There are just as many accounts of M1 Rifles failing in the extreme cold of the retreat from Chosin. It all had to do with the U.S. troopies being under trained and unprepared for combat in any conditions. One bunch was killed in their sleeping bags. No sentries. Using a weapon that wasn't intended to be issued to front line combat troops didn't help. The Carbine was intended for troopies who would have been issued a pistol. It's far easier to train a civilian who had never seen a firearm before(the whole U.S. "Army of Riflemen" thing is a huge myth.) to shoot a rifle than it'd ever be to train 'em on a pistol.
Anyway, there are just as many accounts by guys who swear by the Carbine. If anybody wants to test the frozen quilted jacket nonsense, let me know.
 
My father used the m16, m1 & m2 carbines during the Laotian civil war and later in anti communist insurgency during the late 70's when our people were forced into the jungles and persecuted..men, women, and children. He heavily praised the m1 carbine for its pointability and reliability. He does not talk much about it but gets the point across when talking about the dropping power of the round. Our people at the time were on average 110lbs for men. My father said they were still issued Garands into the 60s and welcomed the m16 when it did come. Americans figured the garands were too big and eventually gave out m1/m2 carbines along with the new and limited m16s coming into our hills. He notes this as late 60s. He also noted that he and our people have used it to hunt and kill banteng. Not him but an associate was also noted for killing an elephant with the carbine during the war. My father does not exxagerate nor bs and I believe him and the others who share the same stories of this round. Personally my brother and I killed our first mule deer with the carbine. My father has taken several black bear, here and in Laos with it as well. I would not doubt or hesitate to take a man with one. For me, my m1 carbine always rides along when I hunt. Small enough for small game (and NO grouse do not blow up with this round) and big enough for deer. Not my primary but when I wanna try my luck with another rifle, its the one. Also easier to pack meat carrying the carbine then my 7mm.

To this day, our people that are still stuck in the jungles still rely on the M1/M2 carbines and its "wussy" rounds, however much they have stashed away from the war, to fight for whatever little and limited if you can call it freedom.
 
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The Carbines, M-1 and M-2, were also sought after by Canadian's during Korea. Apparently they were highly prized for night patrols during the "War of Patrols". Lightweight, lots of ammo carrying ability and in the case of the M-2, great counter-ambush medicine if you were caught in a Chinese patrols ppsh ambush.

There are humpteen pictures of RCR's, Pat's and Vandoos gearing up or returning fro those patrols carrying a Carbine. Two more famous ones for me are the Radioman with the heavy face camo, sneakers and his carbine gearing up for darkness, and the wounded and weary RCR?? standing next to his carbine awaiting First Aid after returning from a Night Patrol.

As a side note on hunting, I owned two and had a Commercial one for my wife of small stature to hunt with. I never killed so much as a squirel with both of them, but the co-worker at DND I sold it to back in '84, his dad downed a 9 point aveage build 150-160 pound, buck deer from around 60 yards.
The 110gr W-W soft point entered front on high in center of neck. The deer dropped and could not regain his feet but had to be dispatched at close range. The round had penetrated to the spine but stopped there.

A .308Win or heavier for comparison would have splintered or removed the spine out the back exiting at that location and distance, this I know from many experiences, but again may not have been an instant killing shot anymore than the feeble carbine, but an anchoring one for sure. The 762NATO(308Win) would no doubt have had the same effect on the 9 point buck's neck at 500 yards as the carbine did at 60.
 
Didn't take long to find someone debunking the "Frozen Coat" myth on YouTube. I have no doubt that at longer ranges, it might be an issue, but under 200 yards (probably even 300 or more) I doubt it. And past that, how the heck could you tell by looking? Not like you could see well enough to know whether it was a hit or a miss anyway. Probably some grunts blaming their inability to hit anything past 100yards on the "lack of penetration" of the carbine.

Armies are like any big organization: rumour mills full of superstition an BS. It takes next to nothing to start a rumour in any large organization, and it can become religion in no time if the wrong people pass it along like gospel.

And no, that's not to degrade men in uniform - just to point out that they're human, and prone to some of the same problems and misconceptions as the rest of us.

Here's the video, ignore the cheesy graphics and sarcastic commentary. I do wish he had mentioned what distances he was shooting at:

 
^^26 and 27 it never even dawned on me that someone would have done this on Youtube seems this myth is busted big time, Give it about a year (or less) and the "Frozen clothing N.Koreans just laugh off a .30 crabine" myth will resurface.
 
I think that the myth of the "edible parka buttons" has finally died in the Army. The story used to go around the bazaars that the old style parka buttons could be boiled in water to make soup in an emergency. They looked like plastic, smelled like plastic and tasted like plastic, but hey why ruin an old soldiers tale?
 
If you go back far enough leather and bone would be amongst the ingredients in buttons. In desperate times people have boiled those materials and consumed the resulting soup. I'm not sure how long that would keep someone alive but there was probably some nourishment in it. More than plastic buttons, certainly.
 
At a time when a double load would be 200 rounds on clips, the M1/M2 Carbine allowed soldiers to carry in excess of 300 rounds in magazines for less total weight, and when semi auto was king, and full auto was either pistol caliber, or fire support, the M2 allowed 200 yard fire suppression by an individual soldier. The carbine was actually a pretty revolutionary gun.


PS; 7.62 NATO - my deepest respect for your father, and all of the people of Laos who continue to fight for their freedom from tyranny and racism.
 
The Carbine was not designed for precision accuracy, yet they do quite well. The military accuracy standard was 5 of 7 shots into a 3"x3" figure @ 25 yds. I've generally found them to shoot about a 2-3" group @ 50 yds. About the only tweaks you can do to improve accuracy is with the recoil plate and tension on the front band. The barrel should hang free of wood contact at the forend tip when the action is settled into the recoil plate. When the handgd and barrel band are installed you can vary the tension a bit at the forend tip by tightening/loosening the band screw. You want to have a bit of free play in the handgd as well. The later type band with the bayo lug offers the best stability and tension on the barrel for accuracy. They are at their best use as a plinker shot offhand. The Underwood made barrels are reputed to be the most accurate. I have an Underwood barrel on a Winchester receiver and it does a tad better than various Inland barrels.

The Bavarian rear sight modification is a good example of fixing something that wasn't broken.
 
collector67 said:
From the way they have cancer sticks dangling in their mouths, it's either staged or they are very confident they will meet no resistance. Cigarette smoke can be smelled for a long distance!
Click to expand...

Those could be American smoke captured from dead GI to fool the allies into thinking they are a friendly patrol.
 
hollowedpoint said:
Here's an interesting pic,
Click to expand...

For those to lazy to check out the link

NUTS! The Battle Of The Bulge, by Donald Goldstein, Katherine Dillon and J. Michael Wenger (pages 75-78) shows a number of photographs of members of the SS Kampfgruppe Hansen carrying U.S. M1 carbines captured from the reconnaissance group. Many of the photographs are "action" shots of SS members running as if engaged in combat. The photographs in this book are usually the ones encountered on the internet.
 
A co-worker was in Korea with an Artillery unit. He flew home on compassionate leave when his father died. he never went back to Korea.

In his kit when he unpacked, he found his rifle and pistol. Rifle was a M1 Carbine with the para-trooper folding stock. Pistol was a Remington-Rand 45 1911.

I bought them both for $100 each.
 
I bought my first one at SIR in Winnipeg 49 yrs ago. They had a big rack of them in unissued condition in their downtown location on Vaughn St, both M1s and M2s without the selective fire components. Paid 75 bucks, which was a lot at the time. They were also selling surplus E German VOPO Lugers for 50 a pop. These Lugers next appeared on the retail surplus market at Levers in the mid 1980s.
 
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