Spanish Double

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Wulfgard

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Hey I saw on one of my favorite gun stores websites a Spanish made double in 16 gauge, I've already got a Cooey 840 16 and I've been looking for a decently priced double. This one is a Zabala, I don't know European makers all that well so does anyone have any input?

The pics show it appears to be in great shape, with some engraving on the receiver, kinda hard to tell with the trigger lock on but I believe its a double trigger. The pics don't list the chokes in either barrel which would've been nice to know.

Gimme a shout if ya know anything,

Wes
 
Zabalas are "decent" guns in a world where a lot of Spanish guns are cheap. I believe Zabala made side by sides for CIL at one point. I doubt it would have removable chokes.
 
Zabala made guns to any price point. The cheapest are very cheap indeed. The better guns are quite desirable. You have to look closely and evaluate condition carefully.
 
Many of us are used to the very large gun making concerns (Remington, Winchester, Browning Beretta etc) and try to apply a "name brand" approach to how we think about different gun makers.

In general, with older SxS from Europe and the UK (I'm talking anything older than the 1980's), that's not a very effective method for judging quality. There have been hundreds and hundreds of small and medium sized makers, many of which produced out of the same workshops low end guns built to a price point, medium, good quality guns and higher end stuff. This is true for Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Belgium and Great Britain.

If you want to find out about a gun, you really need to assess the individual gun you are interested in knowing more about. And if you don't have the knowledge to assess it yourself, and wish for effective help here, what is needed are quality pics that show detail of condition of the gun plus the proofs. Anything else and we are basically guessing. Which is what one tries to avoid by asking for help.
 
As already mentioned, it can range anywhere in the spectrum quality wise from poor to very good. Get detailed pics. Also remove the barrels and get pics of the barrel flats (the underside of the barrels) where the proof marks and various stampings are. It will indicate the year made as well as likely the bore and choke sizes. It won't have removable chokes.
 
Spanish date codes are available on this link (fix the http)
htp://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html
Spanish shotguns of this vintage should have two diameters marked on the barrels, the bore diameter and the choke diameter. A difference of 0.1 mm is approximately equal to .004 (four thousandths) of an inch constriction.
 
Another +1 on the quality range for older manufacturers. You could get 10 guns from any of those Spanish firms and depending on the model and manufacture date, they will all be mismatched in terms of quality. Really is a game if pick and choose, you can't really generalize as with new stuff.
 
saskbooknut said:
Spanish date codes are available on this link (fix the http)
htp://www.shotguns.se/html/spain.html
Spanish shotguns of this vintage should have two diameters marked on the barrels, the bore diameter and the choke diameter. A difference of 0.1 mm is approximately equal to .004 (four thousandths) of an inch constriction.
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Well the only pics i can find that has a symbol similar to those on the link and its on the trigger guard, additionally it has writing on the top of both barrels but I can't read it. Symbol says H2 inside a diamond surrounded by a circle it looks like? If that rings any bells let me know, i suspect its a relatively recent model (>30 years) since it looks to be in great condition. and i figured it would have fixed chokes like a lot of old shotguns. Wondering if its worth gambling the 400+tax
 
Hard to know if it's worth the gamble without seeing any pics or knowing if there are any issues. But it doesn't take much of a double barrel to bring $400.00 these days. That being said, if it is at a dealer it is likely priced at the top of what they think they can get for it. So a private sale would likely be around $300.00. But hard to know without more facts.
 
gunsaholic said:
Hard to know if it's worth the gamble without seeing any pics or knowing if there are any issues. But it doesn't take much of a double barrel to bring $400.00 these days. That being said, if it is at a dealer it is likely priced at the top of what they think they can get for it. So a private sale would likely be around $300.00. But hard to know without more facts.
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For those curious its at Gobles in London ON with four pics. I've bought from them before and they are honest I've found and one of the few places that stock a lot of 16 gauge ammo to boot.
 
It looks not bad for $395.00 and a 16 gauge to boot. I question the 23 1/2" barrels though as I would think they have been cut which would explain the price. It also has a beaver tail forearm which many don't like on an upland gun. From the looks of the pics, it appears to have double triggers. Along with the length of the barrels, I'm wondering if the barrels have been reblued. Hard to tell from the pics.
 
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You should be able to tell if it was cut by looking at the space between the barrels at the muzzle. They should tell you if it is cut. If it's intact, it's likely worth the asking price. I like 16s if they are scaled to the gauge.
 
dilly said:
You should be able to tell if it was cut by looking at the space between the barrels at the muzzle. They should tell you if it is cut. If it's intact, it's likely worth the asking price. I like 16s if they are scaled to the gauge.
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How can you tell if they are scaled to the gauge? Asking because I own an 870 express (which needs a shorter stock) and a 16 gauge Cooey 840, don't know if the Cooey is scaled to gauge because I've never handled a 12 gauge 840.
 
sorry Wulfgard, I just bought it.
No, that would be too sh!tty.
Looks like a very nice boxlock for a low price, definitely not entry level quality. You would want a new recoil pad as that one looks petrified. As Dilly said, 23 1/2" barrels is highly suspect. Was just there Saturday and did not see it but might swing by on Wednesday to have a look at the muzzle. Don't worry, not going to buy it from under you. Even if the barrels are original (and even if I was slimy - but I'm not!), that would be too short for my interests.
 
Londonshooter said:
sorry Wulfgard, I just bought it.
No, that would be too sh!tty.
Looks like a very nice boxlock for a low price, definitely not entry level quality. You would want a new recoil pad as that one looks petrified. As Dilly said, 23 1/2" barrels is highly suspect. Was just there Saturday and did not see it but might swing by on Wednesday to have a look at the muzzle. Don't worry, not going to buy it from under you. Even if the barrels are original (and even if I was slimy - but I'm not!), that would be too short for my interests.
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Good to know, I got into 16s and immediately wanted a SxS or a good semi but I'm not a fan of dropping 2 grand on an A5 Sweet Sixteen. I've found I prefer the shorter barrels (whether that be because I'm kinda short myself or because I hate when my 28 inch barrel 870 gets caught on bushes/branches I don't know). I was mulling over the idea of a Stoeger Condor Outback for a shorter bush gun but seeing this lovely 16 made me think twice. Plus it helps I can get advice from much more experienced shooters on here.

I dunno if I can call and have them put it on layaway since I doubt I can head out that way this week but for the price its kind of hard to beat. Seeing as I still can't access the EE for god knows what reason (I have PMed one of the moderators asking but no response).

Cheers,
Wes
 
The way it is now, a 16 gauge (maybe or maybe not on a 16 gauge frame) with a beaver-tail forearm with 23 1/2" barrels is a very strange combination. It is a nice looking gun but it has not sold for a reason. It is also only listed as "good" condition, which, I'm sure for a gun store, would be listed in higher condition if the condition warranted it. Think hard before "pulling the trigger" on this particular gun.
 
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