Spanish FR7 and FR8

[cantom]

The 7mm actions were proofed at considerably higher pressures than 50,000 psi. They are strong enough.

Remember, the post I quoted uses .308 and 7.62 as the same cartridge. They are not. The pressures in .308 Win loadings can be significantly higher than the standard 7.62 Nato loading.

Check out the FR8 and CETME forum on Gunboards.com. There's a current thread on the strength of the FR7.

Edit: Link to gunboards thread.

I'll have a look...
My FR7 had nice tiger striped wood, beautiful stock...I had the faded old bolt polished up like chrome, replaced the firing pin...very little kick...

 

[cantom]

What about all the DCRA #4, 7.62 conversions?

I just bought one of those...if Long Branch did it it's good enough for me...

I remembered what ammo I fired in my FR7- It was Sellior and Bellot surplus, probably from International Arms in Montreal. It was in those generic looking blue boxes. Perhaps it wasn't as hot as commercial .308...I might have fired 20-30 rounds total.


Yesterday, I acquired, for a very reasonable price, a CA (Long Branch) 7.62mm conversion barrel that has been bobbed about 2-3" at the muzzle. Otherwise it's like new, bore looks unfired. What to do with it? I have a C1A1 flash hider in hand, looks nice on there if it were fitted...my Bubba reflex is stirring...
I would have never cut that barrel, it's a tragedy, but what to do with it now? I have a gunsmith who could install the barrel for $50.
I'd need a Stirling mag, 7.62 bolt head?? and I have an extractor...

 

[Dimitri]

I was looking on the net for information about the 7.62x51mm NATO and the 308 Win. Apparently although the pressure numbers are different they arnt messured the same way.

PSI is used on the civilan ammo while CUP is used on the Millitary Ammo.

For example, the SAAMI maximum pressure for the 7.62 x 51 mm is given as 52000 CUP, or 62000 PSI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_units_of_pressure

While I don't like sweeping statements, in 308/7.62 I have found that although the specifications have very similar maximum acceptable pressures, the military ammo is usually "hotter".

Commercial ammo tends to run a round 55,000 psi while I have seen some lots of military running around 60,000 psi. (Same pressure gun, observed in the same pressure testing project.)

Ammo specifications can be miss-leading. Military ammo is usually quoted using the CUP system whereas commercial ammo is quoted in psi. The actual pressure maximums are about the same, but the numbers are about 5,000 units apart. This can create the illusion that the military is lower pressure.

http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/ammopressure.htm


One of these days I'm going to have to find a CUP pressure testing gun and test them for myself. This confusion about pressures is annoying and untill I see the readings for myself I won't belive ether story.

Dimitri

 

[cantom]

If it can handle the 8mm Mauser it can handle the 7.62mm NATO.

The 8mm Mauser (going by Hodgdon's site) lists the 200gr loads at up to 49,000CUP. The 7.62x51mm NATO has a CUP rating of 52,000. Not that much of a difference, and sertianly not enough to cause the rifle to have "stresses" and lead to failer

Dimitri

The FR8 was 8mm and has the M98 3rd bolt lug...I have more confidence in those.

 

[Stevo]

The FR8 was 8mm and has the M98 3rd bolt lug...I have more confidence in those.

The 3rd lug on the 98 action is a "safety" lug. It's not loadbearing in normal use. So in normal condition, both the 96 and 98 actions are only using two lugs to lock up.

 

[Andy]

Methinks this is another one of those myths that need to be debunked. Andy, do you have a spare FR7 you will be willing to sacrifice for the greater gods

I now have an FR-7 but it will not be sacrificed. Still, I will shoot standard 308 loads in it without fear that I am "missing" that important third lug.

We'd all love to see pics and hear the story of how the front too lugs were damaged and the third lug came into action and saved a life. Would be cool to hear the story of how the weak two lug M95 action failed. Funny how that "proof" never surfaces.

 

[albayo]

Fr-8

I sold an FR-8 a dew years ago, and just traded for another one last spring. I like the little gun but haven't shot it. I can't handle much recoil, so it stays on the rack. I have a few of the bayonets, and I think they make an interesting combination.

 

[sunray]

Seems to me one or the other wasn't meant to shoot full power NATO spec 7.62 ball. Load down.

 

[Craig67]

I have a M1916 which is the same action as the FR-7's. I have shot 7.62 NATO in it but the recoil is quite stout.

I now reload using 44 grs of H4350 and it recoils much softer now.

Craig

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

My eyes roll back whenever the arguments over 7.62x51 NATO versus .308 Winchester breakout; but when the argument starts badmouthing the FR7 and FR8 I get defensive. I have an FR8, and have shot it with service ammo. I lived and so did the rifle. In fact I won a local milsurp match with it.

This link is for some ACTUAL research conducted by my friend Colin. Not internet circular reporting or camobelly gun store pontificating, actual first person research from actual sources in Spain. Take a look.

http://ca.geocities.com/snidey@rogers.com/fr-8.html

 

[bearhunter]

Sweden used their 96 actions to build up 8x57, 7x57 and 308 Win, as well as many others. I've put a lot of rounds through my FR-7 and through my Brazilian mauser with the H&K sites and setback barrel. Both made me shudder at first, but after reading the DeHaas articles and looking at a few US Krags that have been converted to 308Win as well that show absolutely no signs of set back on the lug or stretching, I feel that the FR-7 and other pre 98 actions have been erroniously maligned. bearhunter

 

[Unsub]

I am actually happy that people don't think these guns can handle the pressure of 7.62 because it means they are cheap enough for me to own one.
There is not alot of choice when it comes to Mausers in modern calibre.
FR7 and 8 and the israeli conversions. If you have the money a lose definition of mauser and consider the 30 06 a modern cartridge there is the springfield.
Am I forgeting any? I am partial to the FR8 just because of the cool bayonet.

 

[Andy]

There is a rather large list of milsurp guns that are "dangerous to shoot", but very close to no substantiated proof to support the various claims. You know the:

- ones made with commie steel;
- guns missing the important third lug;
- anything Italian, Spanish or French;
- all Krags;
- etc.

I have done a bit of "proof testing" with Carcanos, including the dangerous "Cooey (or Eaton) Carcano" and found them to be exceedingly strong, and even have a "Bannerman" Mosin that I have examined and then shot with impunity. A clever guy who goes by "Clark" on various boards has done an immense amount of proof testing on a number of milsurps and has been called an idiot and worse, and was actually banned on at least one board by the "Luddites" in control of it - all because of his proof testing (done at his own risk), and his outrageous practice of publishing his results.

With very rare exceptions (e.g. poor steel in low-number Springfields - and even then there are no reports of kabooms), there just is no published proof to base the labelling of any guns as unsafe. When called on it, claimants will admit they didn't actually see the gun, but will offer something like "I heard from a reliable third-party source whose name escapes me". Milsurp Folklore.

I am not saying that all milsurps are indestructible, just that the various claims that guns are weak are being based on hearsay at best. I would LOVE to see some proof - there just doesn't appear to be any (yet), and when someone like Clark conducts a test, the sheep refuse to acknowledge it. If anyone has important evidence, bring it on, but be prepared to defend it.

Original research seems to have died off. The Ackleys, Gibbs (not that those two's claims weren't full of $hit to some extent due to their commercial interests), Keiths and such seem to have no successors.

 

[MiG25]

as to the third lug, is there any proof of a mauser (of any model) shearing its two front lugs?

i am going to keep my eyes open for a cheap bubba'ed 1893 or similar to donate to the cause.

 

[TheIndifferent1]

Clark is crazy, but it's cool that someone's doing the testing. I saw a post on him trying to KB a T-33 Tok and couldn't do it. Couldn't remember if it was a Chinese or Russian one though.