Spanish FR8 Rear Sight Variation? *Eureka! Please add your FR8/FR7 info: post#9*

[Vimy Ridge]

I have noticed that the rear sights on FR8's are sometimes mounted in the opposite direction. (may be true of FR7's as well) As you can make out in the following photos the rear sight is identical, just mounted facing differently. This effects which direction you'd need to turn the dial to make adjustments. Does anyone know why this is? Was it done randomly, or was it a change made at some point in production? Is one more "correct" than the other?

FR8 with the slanted part of the rear sight forward.

FR8 with the slanted part of the rear sight rearward.

I only noticed this because I picked up a second FR8 recently and it had the rear sight mounted reversely. I thought it was quite odd until I googled some FR8 photos and it turns out that it's quite common. It must have made instruction of troops more complicated than necessary!

 

[Vimy Ridge]

So to further my little investigation, I searched high and low to find more examples to see if there is any rhyme or reason to this mystery. Here I have only posted pictures of FR8's that I could find confirmation of the date of manufacture. It appears that it is completely random which way the rear sight is mounted on FR8's. I will make note however that in general in all the photos I looked at the FR8's with the slanted part of the rear sight to the rear were slightly more common. I also threw in some other info pertaining to FR8's that I found interesting.

1954 slant rear:

1957 slant rear:

1952 slant rear:

1954 slant forward:

1956 slant forward:

I have a 1956 LaCoruna large ring Spanish mauser (also called the FR-8) chambered in 7.62x51NATO (here' is mine):

1950 slant forward:

Spanish Mauser FR8 7.62 NATO Bolt Action Rifle. Mfg. 1950, nice rifle in VG to Excellent Overall Condition. Bore excellent. A must have if your have a G3 or CETME! Serial Number 17806.

1955 slant rear:

Still has the "La Coruna" crest on the ring and is dated 1955.

Just a point of interest in that I could not find any pictures of FR7's with the rear sight mounted with the slant to the rear:

FR8 with interesting "Guardia Civil" (National Police) crest:

FR8 with no crest.

FR8 bayonet showing markings and serial number:

CETME / FR8 / FR7 cotton variation sling:

CETME / FR8 / FR7 synthetic variation sling:

CETME (probably used on FR7/8's as well) leather variation sling:

Detail of cleaning kit tube:

FR8 stripped:

 

[Vimy Ridge]

I will add a photo of my two with dates and showing the sight variation together in one photo. 1956 slant forward and 1957 slant rearward. Feel free to add a photo showing yours and/or add which type of rear sight it has. (both FR7's & FR8's)

Shot showing sling variation:

 

[stoggie]

Good observation. I have a 1956 and its slant is forward. Based on the amout of years that show both varients, could be there was no standard, so the worker welding it on did it whatever way suited him that day. If I recall these were all re-built rifles, and not new made.

 

[Vimy Ridge]

Good observation. I have a 1956 and its slant is forward. Based on the amout of years that show both varients, could be there was no standard, so the worker welding it on did it whatever way suited him that day. If I recall these were all re-built rifles, and not new made.

It's frikken weird isn't it?

 

[green]

The FR8 is a conversion of the 7.9 cal rifle and the date would be the year it was made in 7.9. I do not see how the date would be relevant to the sight position which was done when the arm was converted.

 

[Cocked&Locked]

Well, the sights where added as part of the conversion.


Hey, since you seem to have a pile of FR-8's, do you have a stock you want to sell? I picked up an FR-8 but someone sanded, varathaned and put a recoil pad onto it. I'd like to take it back to original if i could.

 

[Vimy Ridge]

The FR8 is a conversion of the 7.9 cal rifle and the date would be the year it was made in 7.9. I do not see how the date would be relevant to the sight position which was done when the arm was converted.

Well the conversions took place in the 1950's so I had assumed they were stamped as such after conversion. It doesn't make sense to me that they would take new production rifles and immediately convert them, so I never even considered this. (doh!) The FR7's usually have dates from much earlier (obviously) but from what I know they don't have crests and a date stamped with it in the same place. Since you have brought this up however, it appears you are correct because the serial numbers don't always correlate to the dates. So thank you for pointing this out. I'm going to redo this completely using serial numbers instead and see if it makes anymore sense - which it probably won't!

 

[Vimy Ridge]

Well, the sights where added as part of the conversion. Hey, since you seem to have a pile of FR-8's, do you have a stock you want to sell? I picked up an FR-8 but someone sanded, varathaned and put a recoil pad onto it. I'd like to take it back to original if i could.

No, I only have two and no spare stuff - but if you want to help out with this maybe you could post a partial serial number and the type of sight it has.

I'll start with mine and then add to it, this is looking completely different :


Rear Sight With Slant Forward

06853 (albayo)
08519 (Cocked&Locked)
14010 (Ganderite)
151xx (VR '56)
16766 ('56)
17316 ('54)
17778 (stoggie '56)
17806
18985
--------------------
Rear Sight With Slant Rearward

21372 ('57)
228xx (VR '57)
22936 ('52)
23420 ('57)
29637
308xx
35597 ('55)
36643
43363 ('55)
500xx [(((echo))) '52]


Just looking at this info there must have been a change in production at some point. Very interesting. Credit goes to CGNer "green", thanks again!

 

[green]

I also note that the FR8 flash hider has the longitudinal slots that were introduced with the Cetme "C" in 1964. The 1958 Model "B" Cetme had had round holes in the fh. If these arms were converted in the 50s would they not have the model B fh?

 

[Vimy Ridge]

I also note that the FR8 flash hider has the longitudinal slots that were introduced with the Cetme "C" in 1964. The 1958 Model "B" Cetme had had round holes in the fh. If these arms were converted in the 50s would they not have the model B fh?

I'm just going from what I've read in the little information that exists online, but that is something as well.

 

[green]

The FR8 also takes the Cetme bayonet which was adopted with the CETME C in 1964.

 

[stoggie]

According to the "Mauser - Military Rifles of the World" the FR7 was a conversion from the Spanish Model 1916 rifle, and the FR8 was a conversion from the Spanish Model 1943 rifle. These conversions were done during the 50's.

 

[stoggie]

Ok, after some searches, there are a bunch of Model 1943 Spanish Mausers out there that have the La Coruna marking and 50's dates - so, these could have been converted much later than what the receiver ring shows. Here is an example:

h t t p://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155666401

Note the serial number on the side rail, which looks much differant than the FR8. This could be the serial number and the date have nothing in common.

Another example:

I also found this page:
http://zoneballistic.com/colinsballistics/fr-8.html

It states "And so the FR-7 and FR-8 served Spain from 1965 to around 1980." Perhaps these weren't converted till the early 60's, which bettter aligns itself with the flashhider and bayonet thories.

 

[Vimy Ridge]

Ok, after some searches, there are a bunch of Model 1943 Spanish Mausers out there that have the La Coruna marking and 50's dates - so, these could have been converted much later than what the receiver ring shows. Here is an example:

h t t p://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=155666401

Note the serial number on the side rail, which looks much differant than the FR8. This could be the serial number and the date have nothing in common.

Yes, I've also since come across this info which says that FR8's used modified CETME C barrels. Same page! I'm thinking they must have been re-serialized at conversion for sure, especially since they stamped "FR8" in front of it.

http://zoneballistic.com/colinsballistics/fr-8.html

Cetme `c' barrels modified to fit and shortened to 17.75"

Anyway, stoggie, do you mind adding a partial serial number to the list? (post #9) Yours I assume would fit into the earlier batch with the 1###x serial numbers.

 

[stoggie]

Sure - Slant forward - 17778 - 1956 date - Matching, looks to be unissued but isn't perfect. I'd say overall VG, but bore is excellent.

 

[Vimy Ridge]

Sure - Slant forward - 17778 - 1956 date - Matching, looks to be unissued but isn't perfect. I'd say overall VG, but bore is excellent.

Thanks bro!

 

[Vimy Ridge]

I wonder if there was a change in the CETME "C" production that made them alter the way the rear sights were installed on the FR8 conversions.

I also would be interested to know if anyone owns or has proof of an FR7 with the rear sight installed in the later production method with the rear sight's slant to the rear, because I have yet to see one. Maybe this indicates that all the FR7 conversions were done earlier on and then they only concentrated on converting FR8's. Assuming of course that FR7/8's initially went through conversion at the same time. Maybe they started with FR7's then changed only to FR8's. I know the numerical designations could indicate that that was the case but I haven't seen anything that states that actually happened. The only theory I've heard was that FR7 means in came from an 7mm M1916 rifle and the FR8 means it came from a 8mm M1943 rifle.

 

[Ganderite]

#14010 slant on the front side.

1956

 

[Vimy Ridge]

#14010 slant on the front side.

Thank you sir.