Speaking of Russian rifles..

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jimbubba

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I just acquired a Russian military rifle.Russian writing on it.It has a sighting ramp which has steps and the distance markings are in English.Not sure if the Russian numbers are the same as ours or not?It is marked 1919,seems to be in 8mm.Straight bolt handle,cocks on lifting the bolt handle,no provision for a bayonet,it has an under muzzle cleaning rod.Fixed magazine protrudes beneath the stock,and has a provision to accept loading by stripper clips.

Can any of you identify it? will post pics if this info is not enough.

TIA.
 
Its a Mosin-Nagant 1891 rifle. not 8mm, but 7.62 x 54r. These rifles were made to accept bayonets. I have a 1934 Mosin-Nagant 91/30 rifle and they are very reliable, sturdy rifles. Aren't worth a whole lot money wise, but are fun and cheap to shoot.
 
COULD also be an 8mm, guys. A bunch were converted by the Germans during the Great War, more by Poland in the post-War period.

Best thing is to have someone who knows take a good hard look at it.

One thing for sure: they are a LOTTA fun to play with!

Congrats on your fine new toy!
 
Hey thanks for the quick words,fellas.I have a crude gauge and it looks like 8 mm,but...It seems very good quality machining,trigger is pretty smooth still,though it has been sitting in the damp for???
Wood is pretty good.
I don't know if the words and numbers stamped on the receiver will show very well after the resizing for publication to the net.
The date 1919 is clear and there is a large Russian star,plus PC (squiggle) CP
 
jimbubba said:
Hey thanks for the quick words,fellas.I have a crude gauge and it looks like 8 mm,but...It seems very good quality machining,trigger is pretty smooth still,though it has been sitting in the damp for???
Wood is pretty good.
I don't know if the words and numbers stamped on the receiver will show very well after the resizing for publication to the net.
The date 1919 is clear and there is a large Russian star,plus PC (squiggle) CP
Click to expand...

Squiggle is a Russian "F" ie "RSFSR" In English, "Russian Soviet Federal Socialist Republic". First official name of what became the USSR. Factory is Tula.

Good pictures. Your rifle is one of many which passed into Finnish hands after independance from Russia in 1917 (which begs the question at what point did they acquire a 1919 Tula? During a later conflict?) The front and rear swivels shown are of Finnish design. The "D" indicates modification allow use of later Russian type D166 heavy ball ammunition. Is there an "SA" in rectangle marking also? Is the stock of two piece design?
 
First time I've seen a swivel mounted on the mag well on a mosin. Looks to be original, as in the swivel being purpose made for the application.

Any ideas?

bearhunter
 
eos said:
Good pictures. Your rifle is one of many which passed into Finnish hands after independance from Russia in 1917 (which begs the question at what point did they acquire a 1919 Tula? During a later conflict?)
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It likely fell into Finnish hands during the Winter War (1939-1940). The Soviets invaded Finland and ended up taking a beating from the Finnish.
 
cote_b said:
It likely fell into Finnish hands during the Winter War (1939-1940). The Soviets invaded Finland and ended up taking a beating from the Finnish.
Click to expand...


Seems a little late for an 1891 to be deployed but then again, being chronically short of small arms as always, the Red Army probably used every type of Mosin that could be found. They even re-issued the AVF 1916 in 6.5 Japanese as there were not enough current automatic weapons to go around.
 
bearhunter said:
First time I've seen a swivel mounted on the mag well on a mosin. Looks to be original, as in the swivel being purpose made for the application.

Any ideas?

bearhunter
Click to expand...

Correct for a pre 1909 Mosin. Swivels replaced by the stock slots/dog collar sling arrangement after that (used on the Dragoons and carbines from day one). Earlier rifles would not necessarily have had the magazine swivel removed when re-fitted for the new slings.

Any combination of features may be found on Finnish modified/rebuilt Mosins.
 
Woohoo!

Lucky you!
You just got a Tula 1919 manufactured M-91 which was somewhere sometimes captured by the Finns (sling wire hangers are a dead giveaway).
The mid position swivel is quite uncommon but definately kosher and collectible.
Interesting Tula hammer in lieu and place of the imperial double-headed crest: looks like factory stamped on a new rifle in the year following the demise of the Czar Nicholas II.
Stock doesn't look like it was replaced, perhaps original to the rifle.
If you want to take that rifle down for cleaning, be VERY CAREFUL with the barrel bands: they open by SCREWING DOWN the captive bolt.
First, lubricate them and do not force when bottoming in either direction, the screw head might snap and these barrel bands are getting quite scarce!
All in all, great find. Old M-91 Mosin-Nagants in that state of preservation are getting rarer by the minute. DO NOT try to restore, reblue, sand or varnish it if you want to keep its value; just clean and oil it like a good firearm.
PP. :)
 
eos said:
Your rifle is one of many which passed into Finnish hands after independance from Russia in 1917 (which begs the question at what point did they acquire a 1919 Tula? During a later conflict?)
Click to expand...

I guess they acquired it from Austrian or German governments which sold lots of surrendered rifles to other nations after their victory against the troops of Nicholas II.
PP.
 
Thanks again for the quick and ample info..
Calibre would be 7.62 x 54R?
Will it shoot modern ammunition?I don't see any provision for a bayonet but I presume it would have had one,given the vintage.

Eos,it does have SA in a rectangle,and a small arrow on the floorplate ahead of the action screws pointing to the muzzle.
The action screws and barrel band screws show little evidence of attack by the hamfisted.The wood seems to be 2 pieces.The bolt has a serial number that was struck out and another one added to the bolt that matches the rifle.
 
jimbubba said:
Thanks again for the quick and ample info..
Calibre would be 7.62 x 54R?
Will it shoot modern ammunition?I don't see any provision for a bayonet but I presume it would have had one,given the vintage.
Click to expand...

Yes, it will shoot modern ammunition and surplus ammo. The spike bayonet attaches onto the front sight on my 1934 Mosin, but yours is tool old to have a front sight hood, so I dunno.
 
cote_b said:
Yes, it will shoot modern ammunition and surplus ammo. The spike bayonet attaches onto the front sight on my 1934 Mosin, but yours is tool old to have a front sight hood, so I dunno.
Click to expand...

Later 91/30 bayonet will fit. 1891 bayonet can be identified by having a locking ring, like that of a musket's
 
jimbubba said:
Thanks again for the quick and ample info..
Calibre would be 7.62 x 54R?
Will it shoot modern ammunition?I don't see any provision for a bayonet but I presume it would have had one,given the vintage.

Eos,it does have SA in a rectangle,and a small arrow on the floorplate ahead of the action screws pointing to the muzzle.
The action screws and barrel band screws show little evidence of attack by the hamfisted.The wood seems to be 2 pieces.The bolt has a serial number that was struck out and another one added to the bolt that matches the rifle.
Click to expand...

2 piece stock is typically Finnish (I have seen Russian stock splicing but done to conserve stocks and not as an accuracy improvement as it is with Finnish rifles). The SA represents "Suomen Armeija " i.e. "Finnish Army".

Renumbered bolts are common in Finnish rebuilds and are usually the only number that matches the receivers on 1891s. The arrow marking on any part indicates it was manufactured at the Izhevsk Arms Factory. Again, little attention was paid to matching up non critical parts on Finn rebuilds.

The sights are calibrated for the 7.62x54R 1908 model 148 grain light ball ammunition with spitzer bullet. This is still the current type and any silver paint tipped surplus you find (such as the currently common Czech) will shoot well in your rifle. Note that the lacquer on the steel Czech cases will stick to varying degrees in a dirty, rough or corroded chamber. Keep a stout stick handy as the short bolt handle can provide insufficient leverage at times. Brass case ammo is seldom an issue in any chamber.

Pre revolutionary Russian 91s are common in Finnish guise and the post revolution dated rifles less so. Finland acquired Mosins in every corner of the world during the 20s and it could be that your 1919 Tula was captured from Russia later or bought from a third country who had it supplied by Russia. Despite shortages of domestic arms for her own use, Russia sold arms in the immediate post revolution period to raise foreign currency.

All in all, a good find and very collectible.
 
I just acquired a Russian military rifle.Russian writing on it.It has a sighting ramp which has steps and the distance markings are in English.Not sure if the Russian numbers are the same as ours or not?It is marked 1919,seems to be in 8mm.Straight bolt handle,cocks on lifting the bolt handle,no provision for a bayonet,it has an under muzzle cleaning rod.Fixed magazine protrudes beneath the stock,and has a provision to accept loading by stripper clips.
Click to expand...

I believe that if you entered 'russian military rifle' in Google and looked at the pictures, you would have immediately realized that it was a Mosin Nagant 1891/30. This is why I thought that someone is goofing around with the members.
 
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