Special Forces AR accuracy?

True Story.

I went to the range with my 15 year old niece for her first time shooting pistol. I was coaching her with my sig and she was doing really well at 10 and 15m keeping the rounds on target and after a while she was getting pretty consistent keeping them in the black. We started shooting some plates and silhouettes, and she was doing great.

Anyway this british guy who was sighting in a mosberg plinker, comes over and starts trying to correct what I am showing her, saying that he was special forces and that she shouldn't be extending both her arms out so far and etc etc. He then takes my Sig and poses in a dramatic weaver stance, elbow way down and starts talking about how he used to have to shoot 1000 rounds a day, how he was a sniper and all kinds of other bull####.

So my niece and I are both just standing there stunned, as he is telling us about his special forces service and his tours in Afghanistan as a contractor... after 15 min of this yarn, he says he is going to show us how they "run a gun", he takes a mag slaps it into the sig fumbles for the slide release in a rush, gives up and racks it. He then fires the slowest 10 round group I have ever seen, shooting the far left of the target (off paper at 20m) with his horrible weaver style stance. He notices that we are less than impressed and turns and says " I am pretty sure your sights are crooked mate", and talks about how he never liked sigs and only carried glocks. I happened to have my G34 there with me and offered to let him try that. Same results again, horrible form provides him with a group that is at least on paper but spans from the top to the bottom. He tells me that it is combat effective, but he thinks something is also wrong with my Glock. My niece then resumes shooting and manages to produce a substantially better group. All the while he continues to tell us how he was a sniper and etc shooting thousands of rounds a day etc etc.

On another separate outing, my dad and I run into him while he is sighting in his model 70, again he starts talking about being a sniper in the british army SF and etc.

Dad and I are just sighting in my deer rifle prior to the season, it was bang on from the word go so we decide we are just going to plink away. This British guy blasts through 2 boxes of .308 in like 15 min and is cursing about his scope being junk. He asks to borrow a screw driver to adjust his scope dials, so I go over and I notice the glossy look a scope gets on the tube when it suffers from loose rings. I mention that I think his scope rings might be loose, he said "nah mate, this scope is just overly sensitive" he talks about seeing the bullet tails and it shifting etc he dials some correction, fires another 5 rounds, just like the first 40 they are all over the place. He continues cursing, and talking about how he is an amazing shooter and fired 1000 rounds a day in the SF with his "L1A3" all the way out to 600 yards. My dad asks if he can try the rifle, and the British guy said yes, the first thing my dad checked was the rings, and you could slide the scope back and forth. We tighten it down with my hex wrenches, bull the bolt bore sight it at 25 and get it back on paper. The SF brit guy was speechless. My dad is 71 and pretty blunt, he looks at him and said, all that time in the SF and they never taught you to check your rings?

I still LOL when I think of those occasions.

A few CGN OG's know who I am talking about.
 
c0ntract said:
True Story.

I went to the range with my 15 year old niece for her first time shooting pistol. I was coaching her with my sig and she was doing really well at 10 and 15m keeping the rounds on target and after a while she was getting pretty consistent keeping them in the black. We started shooting some plates and silhouettes, and she was doing great.

Anyway this british guy who was sighting in a mosberg plinker, comes over and starts trying to correct what I am showing her, saying that he was special forces and that she shouldn't be extending both her arms out so far and etc etc. He then takes my Sig and poses in a dramatic weaver stance, elbow way down and starts talking about how he used to have to shoot 1000 rounds a day, how he was a sniper and all kinds of other bull####.

So my niece and I are both just standing there stunned, as he is telling us about his special forces service and his tours in Afghanistan as a contractor... after 15 min of this yarn, he says he is going to show us how they "run a gun", he takes a mag slaps it into the sig fumbles for the slide release in a rush, gives up and racks it. He then fires the slowest 10 round group I have ever seen, shooting the far left of the target (off paper at 20m) with his horrible weaver style stance. He notices that we are less than impressed and turns and says " I am pretty sure your sights are crooked mate", and talks about how he never liked sigs and only carried glocks. I happened to have my G34 there with me and offered to let him try that. Same results again, horrible form provides him with a group that is at least on paper but spans from the top to the bottom. He tells me that it is combat effective, but he thinks something is also wrong with my Glock. My niece then resumes shooting and manages to produce a substantially better group. All the while he continues to tell us how he was a sniper and etc shooting thousands of rounds a day etc etc.

On another separate outing, my dad and I run into him while he is sighting in his model 70, again he starts talking about being a sniper in the british army SF and etc.

Dad and I are just sighting in my deer rifle prior to the season, it was bang on from the word go so we decide we are just going to plink away. This British guy blasts through 2 boxes of .308 in like 15 min and is cursing about his scope being junk. He asks to borrow a screw driver to adjust his scope dials, so I go over and I notice the glossy look a scope gets on the tube when it suffers from loose rings. I mention that I think his scope rings might be loose, he said "nah mate, this scope is just overly sensitive" he talks about seeing the bullet tails and it shifting etc he dials some correction, fires another 5 rounds, just like the first 40 they are all over the place. He continues cursing, and talking about how he is an amazing shooter and fired 1000 rounds a day in the SF with his "L1A3" all the way out to 600 yards. My dad asks if he can try the rifle, and the British guy said yes, the first thing my dad checked was the rings, and you could slide the scope back and forth. We tighten it down with my hex wrenches, bull the bolt bore sight it at 25 and get it back on paper. The SF brit guy was speechless. My dad is 71 and pretty blunt, he looks at him and said, all that time in the SF and they never taught you to check your rings?

I still LOL when I think of those occasions.

A few CGN OG's know who I am talking about.
Click to expand...

They like warm beer and drive on the wrong side of the road......maybe he is British sf it would just be par for the course
 
c0ntract said:
True Story.

I went to the range with my 15 year old niece for her first time shooting pistol. I was coaching her with my sig and she was doing really well at 10 and 15m keeping the rounds on target and after a while she was getting pretty consistent keeping them in the black. We started shooting some plates and silhouettes, and she was doing great.

Anyway this british guy who was sighting in a mosberg plinker, comes over and starts trying to correct what I am showing her, saying that he was special forces and that she shouldn't be extending both her arms out so far and etc etc. He then takes my Sig and poses in a dramatic weaver stance, elbow way down and starts talking about how he used to have to shoot 1000 rounds a day, how he was a sniper and all kinds of other bull####.

So my niece and I are both just standing there stunned, as he is telling us about his special forces service and his tours in Afghanistan as a contractor... after 15 min of this yarn, he says he is going to show us how they "run a gun", he takes a mag slaps it into the sig fumbles for the slide release in a rush, gives up and racks it. He then fires the slowest 10 round group I have ever seen, shooting the far left of the target (off paper at 20m) with his horrible weaver style stance. He notices that we are less than impressed and turns and says " I am pretty sure your sights are crooked mate", and talks about how he never liked sigs and only carried glocks. I happened to have my G34 there with me and offered to let him try that. Same results again, horrible form provides him with a group that is at least on paper but spans from the top to the bottom. He tells me that it is combat effective, but he thinks something is also wrong with my Glock. My niece then resumes shooting and manages to produce a substantially better group. All the while he continues to tell us how he was a sniper and etc shooting thousands of rounds a day etc etc.

On another separate outing, my dad and I run into him while he is sighting in his model 70, again he starts talking about being a sniper in the british army SF and etc.

Dad and I are just sighting in my deer rifle prior to the season, it was bang on from the word go so we decide we are just going to plink away. This British guy blasts through 2 boxes of .308 in like 15 min and is cursing about his scope being junk. He asks to borrow a screw driver to adjust his scope dials, so I go over and I notice the glossy look a scope gets on the tube when it suffers from loose rings. I mention that I think his scope rings might be loose, he said "nah mate, this scope is just overly sensitive" he talks about seeing the bullet tails and it shifting etc he dials some correction, fires another 5 rounds, just like the first 40 they are all over the place. He continues cursing, and talking about how he is an amazing shooter and fired 1000 rounds a day in the SF with his "L1A3" all the way out to 600 yards. My dad asks if he can try the rifle, and the British guy said yes, the first thing my dad checked was the rings, and you could slide the scope back and forth. We tighten it down with my hex wrenches, bull the bolt bore sight it at 25 and get it back on paper. The SF brit guy was speechless. My dad is 71 and pretty blunt, he looks at him and said, all that time in the SF and they never taught you to check your rings?

I still LOL when I think of those occasions.

A few CGN OG's know who I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Should've simply told his fake self to f*** off. :p
 
Ducimus said:
Guys that shoot a thousand or so rounds with old rifle barrels against guys that shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds with maintained rifles...I'll take the SF guys.
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Yeah because we reserves don't maintain our rifles and only get "old" ones lolol. Mine is basically brand new and has never been on an exercise. It's maintained as rifle team only. I've yet to learn the SF special ninja rifle maintaining juju. Guess I'm not in that loop. You would lose this bet badly. This is me speaking from direct experience shooting alongside and against SF soldiers from other countries whilst shooting on the CF national team. And yours was from where...?
 
Longshot said:
Yeah because we reserves don't maintain our rifles and only get "old" ones lolol. Mine is basically brand new and has never been on an exercise. It's maintained as rifle team only. I've yet to learn the SF special ninja rifle maintaining juju. Guess I'm not in that loop. You would lose this bet badly. This is me speaking from direct experience shooting alongside and against SF soldiers from other countries whilst shooting on the CF national team. And yours was from where...?
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Yes! Well said. Curious about the reply. ;)
 
I would think any SF outfit would be more concerned about tactic's, workspace, speed and timing over that type of accuracy for CQB.
You can only imagine the type of stress and environment's they have to operate under. Dime size shots would be the last of their concerns if any....

 
c0ntract said:
True Story.

I went to the range with my 15 year old niece for her first time shooting pistol. I was coaching her with my sig and she was doing really well at 10 and 15m keeping the rounds on target and after a while she was getting pretty consistent keeping them in the black. We started shooting some plates and silhouettes, and she was doing great.

Anyway this british guy who was sighting in a mosberg plinker, comes over and starts trying to correct what I am showing her, saying that he was special forces and that she shouldn't be extending both her arms out so far and etc etc. He then takes my Sig and poses in a dramatic weaver stance, elbow way down and starts talking about how he used to have to shoot 1000 rounds a day, how he was a sniper and all kinds of other bull####.

So my niece and I are both just standing there stunned, as he is telling us about his special forces service and his tours in Afghanistan as a contractor... after 15 min of this yarn, he says he is going to show us how they "run a gun", he takes a mag slaps it into the sig fumbles for the slide release in a rush, gives up and racks it. He then fires the slowest 10 round group I have ever seen, shooting the far left of the target (off paper at 20m) with his horrible weaver style stance. He notices that we are less than impressed and turns and says " I am pretty sure your sights are crooked mate", and talks about how he never liked sigs and only carried glocks. I happened to have my G34 there with me and offered to let him try that. Same results again, horrible form provides him with a group that is at least on paper but spans from the top to the bottom. He tells me that it is combat effective, but he thinks something is also wrong with my Glock. My niece then resumes shooting and manages to produce a substantially better group. All the while he continues to tell us how he was a sniper and etc shooting thousands of rounds a day etc etc.

On another separate outing, my dad and I run into him while he is sighting in his model 70, again he starts talking about being a sniper in the british army SF and etc.

Dad and I are just sighting in my deer rifle prior to the season, it was bang on from the word go so we decide we are just going to plink away. This British guy blasts through 2 boxes of .308 in like 15 min and is cursing about his scope being junk. He asks to borrow a screw driver to adjust his scope dials, so I go over and I notice the glossy look a scope gets on the tube when it suffers from loose rings. I mention that I think his scope rings might be loose, he said "nah mate, this scope is just overly sensitive" he talks about seeing the bullet tails and it shifting etc he dials some correction, fires another 5 rounds, just like the first 40 they are all over the place. He continues cursing, and talking about how he is an amazing shooter and fired 1000 rounds a day in the SF with his "L1A3" all the way out to 600 yards. My dad asks if he can try the rifle, and the British guy said yes, the first thing my dad checked was the rings, and you could slide the scope back and forth. We tighten it down with my hex wrenches, bull the bolt bore sight it at 25 and get it back on paper. The SF brit guy was speechless.
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That would have been very irritating to be around.

Well played, Sir!
 
There was a young Brit that use to shoot at the RA center here in Ottawa, he would put 50 rounds into the 3" bull at 25m with the club Ruger MKII shooting single handed. He wasn't SF though, just a hell of a shot lol
 
How did inquiring about ARs used by the elite guys turn into Brit bashing? I'm sure there are wannabes, pretend to bes and washed outs everywhere, not just the Brits. And for us internet warriors mocking any elite trained military unit including the CG, let's walk a mile in their shoes before passing judgement on their skills.
 
Longshot said:
Yeah because we reserves don't maintain our rifles and only get "old" ones lolol. Mine is basically brand new and has never been on an exercise. It's maintained as rifle team only. I've yet to learn the SF special ninja rifle maintaining juju. Guess I'm not in that loop. You would lose this bet badly. This is me speaking from direct experience shooting alongside and against SF soldiers from other countries whilst shooting on the CF national team. And yours was from where...?
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Well put. I was lucky enough to attend CFSAC in 07 and 08, and it improved my shooting in leaps and bounds. I was nowhere near the top of the service rifle shooters, although we are very lucky to have a few of them here on CGN. I was amazed at what my 'old' C7A1 could do out to 500m when coached by the best. I agree with Longshot - my money's on the CF shooters.
 
Donny Fenn1 said:
Funny, the US guys I know say the same thing about the Canadians.
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So what you're saying is that nobody's military thinks their Special Forces (or anyone else's for that matter) can out-shoot their own country's Reserve Army Rifle Shooters from 100m to 500m with a service rifle.
Well as a past Canadian Army Reservist that shot (well) with a service rifle, I would have to agree.
 
AFisher said:
LOL.

Tons of hearsay and ancidotal bull####.

There are incredibly good shooters in SF. To say otherwise is bull####.
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Competition and operational shooting are 2 different things. Very good shots in SF CAN suck at competitions. And the opposite is also true. But competition skill set will improve any kind of shooting usage. And it CAN give you an edge just for the experience alone. But again different style. Different job.

I was talking to battalion snipers and they said they don't send many shooters for competition because they suck at it... Is it true? I think so.
 
Cpt.Flan said:
Competition and operational shooting are 2 different things. Very good shots in SF CAN suck at competitions. And the opposite is also true. But competition skill set will improve any kind of shooting usage. And it CAN give you an edge just for the experience alone. But again different style. Different job.

I was talking to battalion snipers and they said they don't send many shooters for competition because they suck at it... Is it true? I think so.
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Yeah... Lets not mix operationnal skills/experience Vs competition shooters ok ?

I've witness PLENTY of "good reserve competion shooter" and a good friend of mine has done nothing but CF competition shooting, been all over the world, won trophies and even claims to be better than the SF... Never deployed since he was an asset to the CF team... Put some stress into his shooting, remove him from a standard range with all the wind indicator, issue him a regular service rifle that hasn't seen the field, deployements and anything army related and his results are going down the drain.

Punching holes in papers is one thing, operationnal shooting skill is another
 
DT741 said:
Yeah... Lets not mix operationnal skills/experience Vs competition shooters ok ?

I've witness PLENTY of "good reserve competion shooter" and a good friend of mine has done nothing but CF competition shooting, been all over the world, won trophies and even claims to be better than the SF... Never deployed since he was an asset to the CF team... Put some stress into his shooting, remove him from a standard range with all the wind indicator, issue him a regular service rifle that hasn't seen the field, deployements and anything army related and his results are going down the drain.

Punching holes in papers is one thing, operationnal shooting skill is another
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Not only this, but shooting incredibly accurately may not the the most important skill on the field. There are lots of other things going on that are often more deadly if ignored to take your time shooting the perfect shot. Flexibility and well rounded skill sets are the hallmark of top SF teams worldwide.
 
Longshot said:
I'll put the top Canadian reserve army service rifle shooters up against ANY sf guys from any country, any day. From 100-500m it wouldn't even be close.
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Long range marksmanship in Reserve units is how we ended up sending the CEF to WWI with Ross rifles. Said with a bit of a tongue in cheek, but still... you get my point.
 
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