Speed vs accuracy?

Lol, just because those good to great shooters shoots half of your time, doesn’t mean they are just spraying, like the gents up commented, you can try it yourself in a match.
 
I just try to shoot alphas as fast as I can. The hardest part is paying attention to your sights, and making up those shots that were a D or a miss because you are operating at the edge of your ability. I think it's better to make mistakes, and then correct them...rather than going so slow as to make sure you don't make any.

If it wasn't a challenging sport it wouldn't be as much fun.
 
grimreefer said:
I just try to shoot alphas as fast as I can. The hardest part is paying attention to your sights, and making up those shots that were a D or a miss because you are operating at the edge of your ability. I think it's better to make mistakes, and then correct them...rather than going so slow as to make sure you don't make any.

If it wasn't a challenging sport it wouldn't be as much fun.
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Pretty much this...
 
StoneHorse said:
Thanks for the link but not for me. If incorrect information is being posted and then someone complains about it, that poster should come up with the correct info. Just complaining about it doesn't help anyone.
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Coreyd is correct. Understanding the rule book would resolve some of the dis-information here - which others have already addressed and corrected - and my earlier lengthier post I believe clearly addresses other common ‘misconceptions’ about the whole ‘Speed “versus” Accuracy’ ‘debate’ in IPSC.

So yes, myself and others have tried to “...come up with the correct info”. Whether you and others recognize it’s the ‘correct info’ is another question.
 
Northaways said:
The ipsc/uspsa podcaster Steve Anderson explains this concept very well. He uses the terms ‘Speed mode’ for dry fire practices and ‘Match mode’ for matches. And advises that if you try and ‘ go fast ’ in a match, you will almost always crash and burn and can only go as fast as your front sight will allow.
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Steve has another great line:

"Don't bring practice guy to the match."

For those that don't know, or are a little hazy on the whole "hit factor" thing, it's really just "points per second". Total points divided by the time it took to get them, is your average points per second for that stage.

Slow, careful, shooters are getting a ton of points, but taking a lot of time to get them. Example: a fast shooter can get 3/4 the amount of points, but in half the time, so their points per second rate is much higher.

Slow dude: 20 seconds for 20 Alphas. 100 points / 20 sec = a hit factor of 5.0 (5 points per second average)

Fast dude: 10 seconds for 10 Alphas and 10 Charlies. 80 points / 10 seconds = a hit factor of 8.0 (8 points per second average)

As mentioned above, it's a balance. Crank up the speed too much and you're getting D/M/NS, and your points total will suck. Divide low points by a fast time, and your points per second will suck as well. High points divided by a long time, will have an equally sucky average. Find the balance.

People will always have different philosophies about training, and no one method will be perfect for everyone, so I come at this from another angle. I will push for speed, but if I start collecting D/M/NS, that's no good. I don't want those, even in practice. For me, I find it hard to shift gears from "practice guy" to "match guy", so I try to keep those two methods fairly close. In practice I will accept a lower percent of A hits, so if I revert to "practice guy" in the match, I won't get burned.

Simple example: a drill requiring 8 shots will be fine with 3A/5C, but I don't want Ds. I'll watch my patterns on the target and refocus on grip and sight picture to crank up the speed and try to keep those groups tighter at the higher speed.

Again, it's a balance. If you don't push, you won't grow. Push too much and train with sloppy hits, and you may very well bring those to the match. Under pressure, many people revert to their training, (in Steve speak: "bring practice guy to the match")..... so for those people, how are they training?

I love the challenge!
 
Trinimon said:
I need to bring match guy to the practice session and ramp him up. lol
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lol!

Practice with a friend. Push each other to make your default speed to be faster. It's easy to make rapid improvements in your early IPSC skills with the right mentality and coaching. :cheers:
 
jimbo14 said:
Steve has another great line:

"Don't bring practice guy to the match."

For those that don't know, or are a little hazy on the whole "hit factor" thing, it's really just "points per second". Total points divided by the time it took to get them, is your average points per second for that stage.

Slow, careful, shooters are getting a ton of points, but taking a lot of time to get them. Example: a fast shooter can get 3/4 the amount of points, but in half the time, so their points per second rate is much higher.

Slow dude: 20 seconds for 20 Alphas. 100 points / 20 sec = a hit factor of 5.0 (5 points per second average)

Fast dude: 10 seconds for 10 Alphas and 10 Charlies. 80 points / 10 seconds = a hit factor of 8.0 (8 points per second average)

As mentioned above, it's a balance. Crank up the speed too much and you're getting D/M/NS, and your points total will suck. Divide low points by a fast time, and your points per second will suck as well. High points divided by a long time, will have an equally sucky average. Find the balance.

People will always have different philosophies about training, and no one method will be perfect for everyone, so I come at this from another angle. I will push for speed, but if I start collecting D/M/NS, that's no good. I don't want those, even in practice. For me, I find it hard to shift gears from "practice guy" to "match guy", so I try to keep those two methods fairly close. In practice I will accept a lower percent of A hits, so if I revert to "practice guy" in the match, I won't get burned.

Simple example: a drill requiring 8 shots will be fine with 3A/5C, but I don't want Ds. I'll watch my patterns on the target and refocus on grip and sight picture to crank up the speed and try to keep those groups tighter at the higher speed.

Again, it's a balance. If you don't push, you won't grow. Push too much and train with sloppy hits, and you may very well bring those to the match. Under pressure, many people revert to their training, (in Steve speak: "bring practice guy to the match")..... so for those people, how are they training?

I love the challenge!
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Well explained, well said Jimbo14. Absolutely is a balance.

Think the ‘Match mode’ Steve Anderson describes can be tough for most folks to get into. Found once I started to remind myself ‘visual patience’ dude, and was able to watch the front sight go up and then back down on target and truly call my shots, only then was I able to start to understand and get into the match mode he preaches.
 
I’m surprised to hear you say this Mike because i’ve always been impressed how fast and accurate shooter you are. Just imagine how much better you’re going to be now that you’re able to see your front sight arc and fall:)

And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this coincides with you tightening up your grip. One very good shooter we know says ‘grip the gun like it owes you money’. I find when I tighten up my grip i’m also able to focus on the front sight arc better and able to shoot faster and more accurately. To help with grip strength I keep a little hand strength gripper thingy or ball in my car and try and spend a few minutes a day working on my SH and WH strength.
 
Thanks (I think I know who you are...lol)

I was doing dedicated forearm work but lately I just keep using foam grips that increases the diameter of the dumbbell/barbel when I'm lifting. I've got the ironmind grippers all over my house but don't use them, I think it's too hard on the hands (there was an older interview on Anderson's podcast where Mike Skeatlander said as much). I did get mr tong to do some work on the wrist after I jammed it (he said it similar to what gymnasts get).
 
Northaways said:
Well explained, well said Jimbo14. Absolutely is a balance.

Think the ‘Match mode’ Steve Anderson describes can be tough for most folks to get into. Found once I started to remind myself ‘visual patience’ dude, and was able to watch the front sight go up and then back down on target and truly call my shots, only then was I able to start to understand and get into the match mode he preaches.
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Thanks. I’ve learned a ton from others and I try to give back.

It’s funny, but I’ve also been using the phase, ‘visual patience’, for a couple years now. I also use other phrases, depending on my audience (I’ve been coaching for a little while).

For Mikey, yes, grip is vital. I was fortunate to spend a weekend with Robert Vogel, and that point was reinforced like crazy. Lol!
 
There's a decent chance if you're middle aged and start working a lot on grip strength, you'll start having tendon problems. Something like the Iron Mind grippers will rapidly increase your muscle strength faster than your tendons are capable of strengthening. My GP was telling me that at age 55, if you're routinely resistance training until your muscles are sore after each workout, you'll be at significant risk of tearing tendons within six months.
 
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