Speeding up .308 precision loads

M

MartyK2500

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
278   0   0
Location
Quebec
New to reloading .308, 5 years and 50K+ experience loading 9mm/.40SW on dillon progressives

Just loaded up 100x .308 rounds, man that was a pain in the butt.
Any ways i can speed things up a bit?
If heavy investments are required i will consider them but will push back to later date.
I particularly find brass prep to be the most painful.
Some casings (1F purchased cgn dealer) i had to trim 14-15 thou out. And trimmer isnt all that quick.
I also resize, deprime, and trim before SS wet tumble, at least primer pockets are clean without efforts.
Loads have to still remain MOA loads, no need for F class rifle precision, but PRS rifle style precision is my benchmark

So far here is the list of tools i use :
Lee breach lock challenger press
Lee ultimate 4 dies set with quick lock bushings for each die
RCBS charge master combo
Lee hand priming ergo tool
CED wet SS tumbler
Lee deluxe quick trim tool and die adapter

In the same reloading room i have a dillon 650 full equip set for .40SW
Getting a conversion and toolhead is an option
Got the single stage as my dillon is not accurate enough for precision loads, more than excellent for bulk IPSC .40 ammo
 
Your set up is good.

Brass prep is a pain, but only done once. Trim all the brass to the same length, champfer the case mouth and de-burr the flash hole.

If I have 1000 cases, I sort by headstamp and then weigh the cases and sort by at least 1 grain increments. The sorted brass then goes in 50 rounds plastic boxes and stays together thereafter.

When you charge your cases with powder, seat bullets at the same time. While the machine is running, seat a bullet. Concurrent activity saves time.
 
I reload .308 and also find brass prep takes a lot of time but it's important. I also use a ss wet tumbler, but use "the worlds finest trimmer" for case trim, and the Lyman case prep center for deburring, chamfering, and primer pocket uniformity (first time only).
I still need to improve speed on powder loading and need an RCBS. I use a Redding Turret for a press, works great.
 
Match ammo manf will always be slower the HG... by a significant level.

You can mechanise the various brass prep steps which speeds things up. I do each step in batches which speeds things up.

I use a FX120i and auto trickler which really speeds things up but nothing will drop the time you are used to for making HG ammo,

You can use a progressive and single stage but the powder charges will still be the bottle neck unless you plan to use ball powder. Fast but creates another set of problems in load tuning.

So....

Jerry
 
I never expect my rifle ammo to be nearly as quick as handgun ammo.
I am able to pump 800 rounds/hour with my progressive equiped with brass feeder and auto primer tube filler.

The rifle loading, to be honest i was o.k. with priner seating and the powder handling/bullet seating
As someone who dislikes reloading but does it as a necessary means to get custom match ammo out for cheaper than cheap bulk, the brass prep was a real pain in the butt, hated it so much it might affect my round count negatively.

Was using 1F that i suspect was used in semi autos

Guys who shoot competition and pump out volumes, you must have a quick way of processing that fired brass?

Edit: Jerry, what did you do to mechanise prep?
 
+2 for the frankford arsenal. Its great for bulk loading. Unless you plan to load multiple thousands of 223 then you may want something a little more efficient that deburs and trims all in the same station
 

Only minor drawback besides price is that it works slightly better with Hornady shell holders due to them having a larger diameter hole that helps locks in and center the case primer hole.
This really helps when you need to trim off a lot of brass on caliber/case conversion. Like I did for 8x50R Lebel to 10.4x38+ Swiss Vetterli ammo.
Can use standard Lee/RCBs etc for regular case trimming.
 
MartyK2500 said:
I never expect my rifle ammo to be nearly as quick as handgun ammo.
I am able to pump 800 rounds/hour with my progressive equiped with brass feeder and auto primer tube filler.

The rifle loading, to be honest i was o.k. with priner seating and the powder handling/bullet seating
As someone who dislikes reloading but does it as a necessary means to get custom match ammo out for cheaper than cheap bulk, the brass prep was a real pain in the butt, hated it so much it might affect my round count negatively.

Was using 1F that i suspect was used in semi autos

Guys who shoot competition and pump out volumes, you must have a quick way of processing that fired brass?

Edit: Jerry, what did you do to mechanise prep?
Click to expand...

Spray lube before running through the body die

Into the walnut media tumbler

Lee collet neck die

Case trimming, deburring done in one step with the Forster 3 in 1 cutter/deburr tool

Neck turning is done on the Forster case trimmer. 2 units so I do not have to keep moving stuff. All using the power adaptor so I can use my 12V driver to power it all.

Clean the primer pocket with a hornady hand unit. Deburr FH with the RCBS or K&M or other quality part. Hand primer which is as fast as a bench unit and way faster then press primer (which limits what you can do).

Biggest time saver was the FX and trickler. If you really want to make match quality ammo, powder charge consistency is critical. This requires a good milligram scale. Trickling by hand was one of the more painful and slow parts of making ammo. Now I am 1/3 the time for this step and so much happier.

Jerry

PS annealing is done every couple of firings on a bench source annealer
 
Mystic Precision said:
Spray lube before running through the body die

Into the walnut media tumbler

Lee collet neck die

Case trimming, deburring done in one step with the Forster 3 in 1 cutter/deburr tool

Neck turning is done on the Forster case trimmer. 2 units so I do not have to keep moving stuff. All using the power adaptor so I can use my 12V driver to power it all.

Clean the primer pocket with a hornady hand unit. Deburr FH with the RCBS or K&M or other quality part. Hand primer which is as fast as a bench unit and way faster then press primer (which limits what you can do).

Biggest time saver was the FX and trickler. If you really want to make match quality ammo, powder charge consistency is critical. This requires a good milligram scale. Trickling by hand was one of the more painful and slow parts of making ammo. Now I am 1/3 the time for this step and so much happier.

Jerry

PS annealing is done every couple of firings on a bench source annealer
Click to expand...

Tagged
Regards
Ronr
 
Thank you very much Jerry for this precise run through
I have to mind myself, if ever i want to shoot 1000/1500 rounds of reloaded .308 rounds per year, i have to spend some time on the reload bench.
I'll load 50 at a time and see where it brings me.

I also know my RCBS isn't the greatest powder trickler/scale while getting it
Going from nothing to shooting reloaded .308, required a rifle, scope, reloading tools etc...
To get this done under 2 months required not spending on all the best gear
FX scale is definitely on my to do list, right now will be testing loads from 100 to 400, i am hoping the rcbs will at least charge well for these ranges
 
I am undergoing this thought process right now.

I have a giraud and that helps alot. I also just ordered an inline fab auto eject for the rockchucker and will see how that does for time. The auto trickler is great but I am trying tonmake it even faster.

I may even go to a dillon 650 for case prep (deprime and size). Handling cases takes up a lot of time.
 
I am going through the same thing and believe this tool can help: Lyman Case Prep Center Xpress or equivalent.

basically it's automated machine with multiple stations/toolheads to do all the case prep work on one powered machine. and better yet, with a third-party adapter, you can turn one of the station(usually the primer pocket reamer which only is used once a while) to powered trimmer. it will speed up the brass prep.

also, not 100% sure, but would like to try is to only setup fl and neck sizing die on LEE single stage to ensure 100% consistent case prep, then for powder, bullet seating and crimping, I am thinking to use the dillon because when I load my pistol rounds(9/40/45/357mag/44spl/44mag), I found the inconsistency(still within tolerance for pistol accuracy) usually came from the sizing station because the different resistance from different brass during sizing. By moving the sizing operation onto the single stage press, progressive may be ok for consistent bolt rifle load as well.



MartyK2500 said:
New to reloading .308, 5 years and 50K+ experience loading 9mm/.40SW on dillon progressives

Just loaded up 100x .308 rounds, man that was a pain in the butt.
Any ways i can speed things up a bit?
If heavy investments are required i will consider them but will push back to later date.
I particularly find brass prep to be the most painful.
Some casings (1F purchased cgn dealer) i had to trim 14-15 thou out. And trimmer isnt all that quick.
I also resize, deprime, and trim before SS wet tumble, at least primer pockets are clean without efforts.
Loads have to still remain MOA loads, no need for F class rifle precision, but PRS rifle style precision is my benchmark

So far here is the list of tools i use :
Lee breach lock challenger press
Lee ultimate 4 dies set with quick lock bushings for each die
RCBS charge master combo
Lee hand priming ergo tool
CED wet SS tumbler
Lee deluxe quick trim tool and die adapter

In the same reloading room i have a dillon 650 full equip set for .40SW
Getting a conversion and toolhead is an option
Got the single stage as my dillon is not accurate enough for precision loads, more than excellent for bulk IPSC .40 ammo
Click to expand...
 
MartyK2500 said:
Thank you very much Jerry for this precise run through
I have to mind myself, if ever i want to shoot 1000/1500 rounds of reloaded .308 rounds per year, i have to spend some time on the reload bench.
I'll load 50 at a time and see where it brings me.

I also know my RCBS isn't the greatest powder trickler/scale while getting it
Going from nothing to shooting reloaded .308, required a rifle, scope, reloading tools etc...
To get this done under 2 months required not spending on all the best gear
FX scale is definitely on my to do list, right now will be testing loads from 100 to 400, i am hoping the rcbs will at least charge well for these ranges
Click to expand...

There are competition shooters who will do bulk prep work when there is snow on the ground and then do the final steps of powder and bullet before a match.

Yes, it takes time but then, we want some pretty demanding results.

After the cleaning stage, I am around 30 to 40 minutes to do 50 rds. It is a process but rushing too much just makes for very expensive frustration.

As they say in racing, "slow down to speed up..."

But definitely share your experiences if you find time saving methods...

Jerry
 
luckey said:
I am going through the same thing and believe this tool can help: Lyman Case Prep Center Xpress or equivalent.

basically it's automated machine with multiple stations/toolheads to do all the case prep work on one powered machine. and better yet, with a third-party adapter, you can turn one of the station(usually the primer pocket reamer which only is used once a while) to powered trimmer. it will speed up the brass prep.

also, not 100% sure, but would like to try is to only setup fl and neck sizing die on LEE single stage to ensure 100% consistent case prep, then for powder, bullet seating and crimping, I am thinking to use the dillon because when I load my pistol rounds(9/40/45/357mag/44spl/44mag), I found the inconsistency(still within tolerance for pistol accuracy) usually came from the sizing station because the different resistance from different brass during sizing. By moving the sizing operation onto the single stage press, progressive may be ok for consistent bolt rifle load as well.
Click to expand...

The problem and bottle neck is powder dispensing. Progressives do not work with extruded powders... certainly not at match ammo accuracy.

I make very accurate 223 practise ammo using ball powder and a progressive. yes, it can work with this type of powder and you can make alot of ammo quite quickly BUT accuracy is limited by the affects of temp on your powder and tuning.

For F class, just not good enough.

Jerry
 
MartyK2500 said:
I never expect my rifle ammo to be nearly as quick as handgun ammo.
I am able to pump 800 rounds/hour with my progressive equiped with brass feeder and auto primer tube filler.

The rifle loading, to be honest i was o.k. with priner seating and the powder handling/bullet seating
As someone who dislikes reloading but does it as a necessary means to get custom match ammo out for cheaper than cheap bulk, the brass prep was a real pain in the butt, hated it so much it might affect my round count negatively.

Was using 1F that i suspect was used in semi autos

Guys who shoot competition and pump out volumes, you must have a quick way of processing that fired brass?

Edit: Jerry, what did you do to mechanise prep?
Click to expand...
First of all if you don't like doing it it's not worth your time.
Are you looking to get Match grade ammo or ammo that has reasonably good accuracy?
Are you shooting a bolt or gas gun?
If you are shooting a gas gun then just buy the Dillon RT-1500 trimmer and a bottle of their case lube and run the brass through your 650XL. This way you are depriming, sizing, and trimming in one stepYou will still need to chamfer and deburr in separate steps.

The Little Crow Gunworks Worlds Finest Trimmer will not save you any time because it also doesn't chamfer or deburr.

To trim chamfer and deburr in 1 step you need a Giraud trimmer.
Just so you know it is not a trimmer that can be changed back and forth between calibers easily.
The bench mounted trimmer is $460 USD plus shipping etc.
The cordless drill mounted tri way trimmer costs $98 USD plus shipping etc.
Giraud trimmers zero off the shoulder of the case so you must size your cases first.

Then you will need an annealer this will help soften the brass necks that get brittle and split after a few firings.
Giraud also makes an annealer but it cannot be exported out of the USA since it is considered automated.
The Bench Source annealer will set you back about $800 Canadian plus tax and shipping.
You also need to stay away from max loads to prevent loosening of the primer pockets.
http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm
http://www.giraudtool.com/Tri%20Way%20Trimmer.htm
http://www.bench-source.com/id81.html
 
Keithjohn said:
World finest trimmer WFT . Works so nice if you do lots it's worth the Google
Click to expand...

+1 on this. I chucked it into my drill press and never looked back!

I started on pistol as well. Didn't like the production time per round either. Soooo.

I got a challenger press strictly to decap and resize. Bought a Lyman case prep center to finish the brass quickly.

That, and I run Dillon too. I bought the quick-change conversion kit for .308. (Thanks MDG!)

After the brass is prepped and sorted, I run the .308 on the 550. So I skip the upstroke on position 1 and add the brass on the 'push in the primer' part of the downstroke. Then run it through the regular positions. Position 4 is empty, as I only use two die sets. But If you use separate crimping dies, it's got an open spot there for you. That speeds up the powder distribution and seating immensely! (Warning, you still need a decappping and resizing or universal decapping die in position 1, in case of a primer issue. Meaning you need an extra die)

Before anyone gets on me about precision loads. Dillon's last name is 'precision'. Precision meaning mechanical repeatability. It seats them very consistently for those concerned with distance from lands, etc.

Hope that helps.
 
Last edited:
Thump_rrr : not because you like shooting that you like reloading and vice versa.
I have hated doing it for pistol for the last 5 years and still do so, it's a means to an end, my way of shooting custom ammo.
Thats why in pistol i went with what was quicker within budget (dillon 650+case feeder+dillon primer filling machine)

Thank you for the links, i will have to look into them and look into annealing eventually
If it was a gas gun for 3gun, this thread wouldn't have started as the 650 would of got it done
This is for a bolt gun, that i have mid term goals of shooting a 12" gong @ 600 to 800M
I don't like doing AND it's worth my time, factory ammo couldn't give me this fireformed ammo, and there's more rounds down range for the same money spent.

My components may not be the best but i wish they will get me there
178gr BTHP hornady match (whats available locally without shipping), varget, winchester primers, once fired sorted FC brass

Jonesyatpl : don't get me wrong i love my 650, i would feed it all pistol ammo (unless i was a bullseye to the 1/4"@25M shooter) and all my auto rifle ammo.
I just can't see this machine reload to the precision what my el cheapo single stage kit just produced.
Just in my 40 ammo, powder is often off by as much as 0.15gr when i take time to compare one by one, and OAL moves up and down even with sorted brass 1F of same lenght.
An IPSC target @ 25M doesn't come close to caring if my bullet impacted 1/8" off from time to time
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom