Spencer repeating rifle m1865

drm3m said:
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I wonder if that is a typo in para 1 re M1865 retaining their original 6 groove barrels? ie I think that that the author may have meant to say "some 1860 carbines"

Or maybe not....seems to refer to refurbished M1865 in para 5 as well?

Seems odd that they were refurbing M1865s when they also say that there were a several 1000 kept at arsenal and not issued (Note 2 to the Chapter 5 page)....

All that said...I find the provided refs a bit odd to read.

Can anyone provide a source which indicates Canada only acquired M1865 carbines with NO Stabler cut-off?
 
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This stuff is from Roy Marcot's book on Spencer Repeating Firearms.


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I did not see any reference to M1865 Spencer carbines that were sold to Canada without Stabler magazine cut-offs.
 
A new twist as family has visited u ask some questions and as my family came west another twin went to other relatives in California and Oregon area. That would line up with the cartouche I have and serial number.

I'm also waiting to hear from my email sent to usmartialarmscollector.com to see if there's any record of where it was issued to.
 
A new twist as family has visited u ask some questions and as my family came west another twin went to other relatives in California and Oregon area. That would line up with the cartouche I have and serial number.
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Huh,,,,,:confused:


Sprechen Sie Englisch! :p
 
A new twist, as in the story of tracing the lineage of my spencer repeating carbine m1865, the one from the first post. This whole threads about it.

Later I posted about my family history in Canadian politics and confederation. Nope the serial number on my spencer doesn't match the ones that came to Canada, so it's an American cavalry piece.

Next part of info or the new twist i have mentioned was my family expanded west from New Brunswick, apparently there were twins a sister and brother she came west to make my more closer relatives but her brother went to visit other relatives that were down in California and Oregon area so I'm thinking that's how my canadian family got an American marked carbine.

I also emailed the usmartialarmscollector.com and awaiting a response on the info they may have relating to the issue of my spencer repeating m1865.

I think that should sum up a number of my posts. Sorry, public school grad over here.....haha
 
Thank you Sir.

This has been an excellent family story and posting.

Get yourself a center-fire breechblock and make her roar again.

I picked one up from Buffalo Arms, not cheap, but well worth it.

h ttp://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163834

Please post any further information that you come up with.
 
drm3m said:
This stuff is from Roy Marcot's book on Spencer Repeating Firearms.


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I did not see any reference to M1865 Spencer carbines that were sold to Canada without Stabler magazine cut-offs.
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Canada acquired its first batch of Spencer carbines (300) in 1866. An additional 1,000 were received the same year although Edgecombe states that no order-in-council seems to have survived for these additional carbines.

If Spencer carbines were re-tooled for Stabler cut-offs in June 1865, options are"

a. Canada was sold the "old stock" from the agent without the Stablers ie preference for the cut-offs going to US Govt/market
b. Canada received a mixed batch some with/some without
c. All Canadian ones were affixed with Stabler cut-offs

I am not sure when the Imperial Govt put its order in for their carbines (1,000) ie maybe they were pre-stabler conversions? Would have to dig further.

The British carbines are the ones that have the WD arrow stamped in the wood on right stock. By all accounts the Canadian purchases had no WD or CM markings.

The left picture with the WD is a US mark ie not Canadian.
 
Thefergs said:
A new twist, as in the story of tracing the lineage of my spencer repeating carbine m1865, the one from the first post. This whole threads about it.

Later I posted about my family history in Canadian politics and confederation. Nope the serial number on my spencer doesn't match the ones that came to Canada, so it's an American cavalry piece.

Next part of info or the new twist i have mentioned was my family expanded west from New Brunswick, apparently there were twins a sister and brother she came west to make my more closer relatives but her brother went to visit other relatives that were down in California and Oregon area so I'm thinking that's how my canadian family got an American marked carbine.

I also emailed the usmartialarmscollector.com and awaiting a response on the info they may have relating to the issue of my spencer repeating m1865.

I think that should sum up a number of my posts. Sorry, public school grad over here.....haha
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It is very interesting reading all this information about an antique and watching someone gain a better understanding of a family heirloom!
Hopefully, this carbine will continue to be cherished and preserved exactly as it is by your family far into the future.:wave:
 
I have examined a number of Cdn and British purchased M1865 Spencers:
One was fitted to take the Stabler cutoff but it was not installed.
About half were fitted with the M1860 extractor, Half with the M1865 extractor which could be used with the cutoff. I believe Spencer Co was using old parts to fill a foreign order.
In the first edition of Marcott's book the above pic of the WD in cartouche was identified as a Canadian mark. A Canadian enthusiast was able to correct this and several other errors for the second edition.
Read "Defending the Dominion" for the best info yet on Cdn Spencers.
 
Thanks guys for the comments and information. Is there any way to differentiate based on the cut off? The one on mine is more rounded or flap like compared to the other picture posted on her American flag it was more block shaped..
 
green said:
I have examined a number of Cdn and British purchased M1865 Spencers:
One was fitted to take the Stabler cutoff but it was not installed.
About half were fitted with the M1860 extractor, Half with the M1865 extractor which could be used with the cutoff. I believe Spencer Co was using old parts to fill a foreign order.
In the first edition of Marcott's book the above pic of the WD in cartouche was identified as a Canadian mark. A Canadian enthusiast was able to correct this and several other errors for the second edition.
Read "Defending the Dominion" for the best info yet on Cdn Spencers.
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Pics?

Did you notice whether they bore any US marks on the stock near the lock?

Were the ones you saw marked with the WD arrow?

Carbines or rifles?

Thanks
 
Well still no reply from srs yet but do you have to register first? Or will they reply first?

I'd appreciate a response first outlining the cost they want, I'm fine with paying, then I'd feel comfortable submitting my full serial number for them to search and then inform me if they have found anything then I'd pay. But it seems to me they want money first? But I'm not paying first to have them then go look and say there's nothing.

Is anyone familiar with the process over at srs usmartialarmscollector.com

I guess I will have to keep waiting...
 
Join the Spencer Shooting Society.
Give Two Flints the complete serial number of your carbine and he will try and help you.

(Two Flints) moderator on Spencer Shooting Society.
Some time ago I acquired the four volume set of the Springfield Research Service (SRS) Serial Numbers of U.S. Martial Arms. I purchased the set so I could help SSS members identify which unit their original Spencer Carbine or rifle was issued or assigned to during, and perhaps, after the Civil War.

Unfortunately, not all the Spencer serial numbers are listed in the four volume set I own. And, there are gaps between indicated serial numbers. This paragraph is a DISCLAIMER of sorts. As a courtesy to SSS members, I am happy to reveal to you the information I have regarding the serial number of your Spencer carbine or rifle. But, please remember, I am just regurgitating what I read in my SRS volumes with some "unscientific conjecture" on my part . What I do is the following: I take your Spencer serial number and try to place it in between the two closest serial numbers to yours listed in my SRS volume. In most cases, if the serial numbers for the Spencer before and after your own serial number were issued to the same unit, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. Or, if your Spencer serial number is very, very close to another Spencer serial number, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. I call this the Two Flints guesstimation I'm guessing and estimating at the same time as to what I believe to be correct information based upon the information I find in my four volume set of SRS And that is the best that I can do for you
 
Well according to two flints the srs info he has doesn't contain 1865 carbine serial.

Although I found this thread about a spencer carbine only a few hundered after my serial...here's a copy and paste of the original post....

History of 1865 Carbine- Tonkawa Scout Gun?
« on: May 16, 2005, 09:43:22 pm »
Reply with quote


I have an original Spencer 1865 carbine, serial number 14237, that was given to me by my grandfather. All I know of it is that it was purchased in Texas and Springfield Research lists numbers 14238 and 14147 as issued to Tonkawa Scouts at Fort Griffin, Texas in 1873 (there doesn't appear to be any 1865's listed by SRS between those numbers). The carbine appears to be all-original with the exception of a somewhat crude blade rear sight (I did find an original replacement a couple of years ago but never mounted it).

Does anyone know of another source for researching Spencer serial numbers, or have an idea where I can find information on the Tonkawa scouts?

Thanks,
Trey

And a link provided by two flints, a cool read also...

http://www.texasbeyondhistory.net/kids/forts/1.html

Any how I'm getting closer
 
It is estimated that approximately 3,000 Spencer carbines and 23,000 Spencer rifles in the Model 1865 were manufactured. This is consistant with the serial numbers found on arms of Canadian usage. Rifle numbers observed include No. 147, 830, 1482, 1648, 1994, 2598, while carbine numbers range from 3440 to 21,337. Although it was instructed that no markings were to be stamped on the guns, several do have the British W'I\D.

Above taken from CJAC article by Rene Chartrand.

Not sure if this helps in your research as it pertains to the Canadian guns
 
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I think the serial is to early to be a Canadian, I was also confused on the W/l\D .....but the D appears to have a horizontal arrow shape.
 
Yes my serial number is "1393x" I'll have to look but I recall reating somewhere a range of serial number of Carbine that came to Canada....I think I recall establishing it wasn't a Canadian carbinew. Anything is possible at this point unless something came from srs or the like to be sure.
 
Ahhhh my light bulb just flickered there is got the info in your re quote and would a couple thousand canadian units be that varried in serials. Like a couple thousand units with serials spread across a range of 18 thousand ? Or am I missing something big?
 
If you believe Rene Chartrand, they were spread across the range.

He sources these numbers from

#3440 - Canadian War Museum Collection, WD and Broad Arrow mark.
# 21337 - Environment Canada, Historic Parks, artifact X67.124.15.
 
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