splits in production division

40cal said:
Thanks for making my night DOC25, I almost fell off my chair laughing.:p

IPSIK is definately one of Canada's best all-round shooters. Listen to him well.

Omen and Relliott are also two very fine shooters, and they have VERY helpful comments. If you read those three notes, absorb, and follow, you will do well.

Don't worry about your splits (I don't). Be smooth, shoot A's, and transition well.
You will know by the scores how you are doing.
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40 Cals not too bad either, he's been known to win a match or two; someday he may even give courses…….:runaway:

Fast splits are ok, but consistent splits with fast but smooth transitions are more important. The really good shooters (like IPSIK) are so smooth they look like they are shooting slowly but when you check their time they tend to be seconds faster.

But remember there is much more than this to make you a better IPSC shooter, Relliott’s course can help save a lot of time in all aspects of a course of fire. I’ve never met a more analytical person when it comes down to breaking down the skills of our sport. :dancingbanana:
 
so who is IPSIK exactly? I of course know Relliot and Omen, and a few of you others as well. And I would imagine that most of you know me.

my take on this? splits are important, like people are saying, all the splits, shot to shot, target to target, they should all be the same, or damn near. Cadence will win over quick doubles just about every time. I learned that many moons ago from Derril Imrie. Listening to him shoot you couldn't tell if he was shooting one target 10 times, or 10 steel plates, or 5 paper targets with 2 hits each. It was just a constant sound, nice and even.
Obviously you need to scale your transitions when going from near to far targets and such, and I personally will slow down on steel, just to make sure I have a good sight picture.
this brings up something else too, how many of you practice your draws, and I mean practice them all the time. Aiming for that 1.5 or 1 or .5 draw to first shot. Have you ever thought that if you practiced weak hand shooting as much as your draw that your scores would probably improve a lot, or if you practiced your reloads and movement as much as your draws, your scores would really improve (especially practicing moving from area to area). People really seem to feel that the draw is one of the most important things you need to be able to do, and do fast, when in reality you'll find that the number of times it's important at a match are very few. Usually little 9 round course of fire (or less), or maybe Standards. What's really important is being able to shoot on the move, transition and do your reloads properly.
 
"Splits are important, like people are saying, all the splits, shot to shot, target to target, they should all be the same, or damn near."

Yes but it's a question of focus. If you focus on the splits themselves you tend to end up with double taps. However if you let your visual inputs dictate moment by moment what the rate of fire shuld be for each individual shot, you will end up with all shots aimed and called. This will automatically end up compressing the dwell time between targets and slightly expanding the dwell time on the targets for a net result of LESS overall time on the clock and a nice steady sounding cadence.

RE the draw: I agree. Spending months to learn how to save a tenth of a second on the draw is a mugs game compared to spending that time learning how to save a tenth of a second on each target. On a 16 target stage that saves you 1.6 seconds. But in reality, many people give up at least a second or two on every transition they do. That can add up to 6 or 7 seconds or more on a stage. At that point, how much is that .09 second draw going to help you?
 
Spend the time you need on every shot to hit the A. Rinse and repeat.

The more often you practise, the less time it will take to shampoo, but if you pay too much attention to your split times on the clock, you'll start rushing.

Shoot with your gut.
 
relliott said:
"Splits are important, like people are saying, all the splits, shot to shot, target to target, they should all be the same, or damn near."

Yes but it's a question of focus. If you focus on the splits themselves you tend to end up with double taps. However if you let your visual inputs dictate moment by moment what the rate of fire shuld be for each individual shot, you will end up with all shots aimed and called. This will automatically end up compressing the dwell time between targets and slightly expanding the dwell time on the targets for a net result of LESS overall time on the clock and a nice steady sounding cadence.

RE the draw: I agree. Spending months to learn how to save a tenth of a second on the draw is a mugs game compared to spending that time learning how to save a tenth of a second on each target. On a 16 target stage that saves you 1.6 seconds. But in reality, many people give up at least a second or two on every transition they do. That can add up to 6 or 7 seconds or more on a stage. At that point, how much is that .09 second draw going to help you?
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ANything under 1 second is better than average at close range (3-5m). But I have seen some guys take nearly 2-3 seconds on a draw at that distance. That slow of a draw is going to hurt their time. I find some matches it can take a few seconds off your time for the day, and others (06 Nationals), there may have been 2 stages where a fast draw may have saved a little time; and that is it! So yeah, the other things like reloads and transitions have to be stressed to be worked on. SHooting on the move I have never been great at, something I personally want to work on.
 
maurice said:
ANything under 1 second is better than average at close range (3-5m). But I have seen some guys take nearly 2-3 seconds on a draw at that distance. That slow of a draw is going to hurt their time.
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True, but if someone has a 2 or 3 second draw at 3 - 5 meters, that would indicate to me that they are struggling with incorrect mechanics. The correct mechanics to make a 1.2 - 1.5 second draw can be learned in about fifteen minutes, and a few days of heavy practice will then dial it into the subconscious. After that, it's just more practice for consistency and faster times. Putting a lot of focus on the draw will ultimately whittle the time down in ever decreasing increments as smaller and smaller efficiencies in the stroke are discovered, but it's a case of diminished return for the investment. A 1.5 second draw if it is consistent isn't going to loose a match. By all means assign a certain percentage of your practice time to the draw stroke, but I think it makes a lot of sense to focus mostly on what you do the most of. That will have the greatest impact on the hit factors.
 
yeah I am not saying not to practice your draws, obviously you need to. BUT don't focus anywhere near most of your time to it.
 
I see a lot of shooters, and almost ALL new shooters with the gun down around their navel when they are moving, reloading, and particularly stepping into a port to engage targets.

I think if you try to keep the gun in front of your face for everything except running long distances you can save huge time.

Get used to having the gun up high all the time (esp reloads) and you will never step around a barricade, lift the gun, shoot. The gun will be there when you step in.

;)
 
Ya know,

It would sure be nice to have some sort of index here with a little background on each poster. Things like class, years shooting, # nationals attended, # international events, NROI Rank, member of gun club / section board, rough area that the guy is ranked in national division, etc.

We don't have to give away who the alias is, just enough so a few others can say "yep, he knows what he's talking about."

Doc25 wouldn't have got freightrained by IPSIK (even though the rest of us thought it was pretty funny :) - sorry Doc.) if we kept something like that and some of the newbies asking questions would know how knowledgeable the responses actually were when they ask.

As the cliche goes - "put up or shut up..." :D
 
hello my name is Robert E. and I am a ###aholic............




oh wrong meeting?
 
Well if you don't know you ask. Lots of people hand out bs advice. At least I was polite and didn't start calling him names before I found out his background :redface: . How would you guys react if he told you he just failed his BB 'cause his instructor feared competing against his perfect "system".

I am happy to have advice (free of charge) from better shooters here on the board.
 
doc25 said:
How would you guys react if he told you he just failed his BB 'cause his instructor feared competing against his perfect "system".

I am happy to have advice (free of charge) from better shooters here on the board.
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Doc, can you explain the "perfect system" comment and the reference to someone failing the BB because of it??? I'm kinda curious here.

I wasn't gonna jump into this but would really like to know about this "perfect system" and how one manages to fail a BB because of it.

I'm not trying to blade you, just trying to figure out what you meant. :confused:
 
It was just a reference to the fact I do not know who IPSIK is and asked what his background was. So if he jumped in and said ... (the bb failed course etc.) I would have taken any info passed on with a grain of salt. Thats all. I actually thought it was funny when I wrote it.
 
as for splits, we did some testing today during our indoor match. Us PD guys were able to have good solid hits, while on the move at 7-10 yds with an average of .18's across the board, that was me, Bartledan, and TeamDarkside.
 
Slavex said:
as for splits, we did some testing today during our indoor match. Us PD guys were able to have good solid hits, while on the move at 7-10 yds with an average of .18's across the board, that was me, Bartledan, and TeamDarkside.
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Well, mine were a good bit slower than those guys', truth be told.
 
doc25 said:
It was just a reference to the fact I do not know who IPSIK is and asked what his background was. So if he jumped in and said ... (the bb failed course etc.) I would have taken any info passed on with a grain of salt. Thats all. I actually thought it was funny when I wrote it.
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Hmm..okay, I guess that the humour of it was lost on me.:rolleyes:
 
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