Sporting Rife and Hunting Rifle - Shooting Federation of Canada

[machohugeaxe]

The Lakeshore Smallbore Association has posted its winter match schedule and information bulletin:
http://ontariotarget.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/LSBA2022-2023-NOTICE.pdf

An ONTarget membership is necessary for Sporting Rifle http://ontariotarget.ca. No membership is necessary for Hunting Rifle.

This might be a bit of a broad question but what levels if competitions are available out there? I know the shooting federation of canada has national stuff, but what's in between? I.e. if I have a kid that's interested, what does the progression look like?

 

[sillymike]

Slight thread derail...

This might be a bit of a broad question but what levels if competitions are available out there? I know the shooting federation of canada has national stuff, but what's in between? I.e. if I have a kid that's interested, what does the progression look like?

How old are your kids? If between 12-18, there's the Cadets program.
- They have good air rifle and full bore programs

And biathlon, if they are so inclined

 

[n17steve]

Well yes I will get some pictures up of my martini the next time I get it out. its maybe a model 8 (?) with a turned down barrel.
it weighs about 7 pounds and has a beautiful trigger. I started with that and then moved on to an Anschutz 190 before moving to match rifle.

 

[CanuckCooper]

It was a gorgeous day out so had to get a little practice in. Two series at 50 meters. 197 for both.

@mac, have a look at the ONTarget website, I know they had some youth stuff in the past. And the Ontario games is geared for youth I believe.

@n17steve, it would be cool to see that rifle!

 

[Biologist]

Thank you CanuckCooper for starting this thread!
Thanks to this thread I have become very interested in the rimfire "Sporting Rifle" and "Hunting Rifle" disciplines. Unfortunately there are no organizations or competitions for these two disciplines anywhere near where I live, so my interest is currently theoretical, studying for maybe starting a club here one day. (My club here only has Benchrest discipline).

Up until now, I did not know the technical differences between rimfire "Target" and "Sporting" rifles. I skimmed through the SFC "Sporting Rifle Rules and Hunting Rifle Rules" linked on the SFC website. I think I now know the key differences, such as limits on trigger pull weight, rifle weight, stock features, hand stops and rails, etc.

A few years ago I purchased my first competition grade rimfire, the Anschutz 1907, with the benchrest wedge for the forearm, and a 45x45 BR scope. My intention was: (1) to be able to compete with the best of the benchrest shooters in my club, most of which had Anschutz rifles, and (2) to later, with aperture sights, practice 3 position "target" rifle on my own for maybe one day in retirement, doing long road trips to far away places to compete. I did not know about the discipline of "Sporting Rifle". (I also discovered online "Silhouette Rifle" which looks like alot of fun, but again no range anywhere near where I live that provides it).

After reading the SFC rules, I now know that my 1907 is not legal for Sporting Rifle for several specs's (trigger pull, stock, maybe weight but I have not weighed it).

Re CC's statement about rifles which are legal for Sporting, I had a question:

.... There’s only one Anschutz that meets the weight requirements out of the factory for this sport as it stands and that’s the 1903kk junior. Don’t let the word junior lead you to believe the rifle would be small. I’m 5 foot 9 and 215lb, and it fits perfect with adjustment to spare. It’s more the weight on that Anschutz that’s different from its bigger brothers. It’s lighter by 2 plus kilos (shorter barrel and lighter stock).

I looked at the rifles listed under "Rimfire" on Nordic Marksman's website, and I noticed that several models of Anschutz 1710, 1761 and 1416 come in a "heavy trigger" option set at 1000g at the factory, and adjustable to 1100g or 1200g, depending on model. I was wondering if these models are legal for "Sporting Rifle"?

My current budget will not allow me to purchase another rimfire to meet the "Sporting" rules. But I do own two CZ Lux rifles that I am wondering if I could use for Sporting, and Hunting disciplines. The critical problem with these CZ's is the lack of a globe front sight dovetail mount. (They have the 11mm dovetail on the receiver for a rear aperture sight mount).

My CZ 452 Lux has a soldered on front sight ramp, and it would need major gunsmithing to convert it to be able mount a globe front sight. I do not want to destroy the factory front sight. The old BRNO globe mounts that fit into the sight post groove where the sliding sight post is, are now unobtanium, to my knowledge. What I need is an adapter to securely fasten over the ramp that has a dovetail on top for a globe sight mount, but I have not found such a thing that is available.

Below is a photo of my CZ 452 Lux front sight with the hood and front sight post removed. I need an adapter to clamp onto this to provide a dovetail mount for a globe sight.


My CZ 455 Lux front sight ramp looks a little different than the 452, and has a removable screw for attaching/detaching the entire front sight assembly, but I don't know what replacement part is available to mount a standard inline dovetail on it for a modern globe sight mount. I have seen in catalogues the ramps with the 3/8" crossways dovetail for sight posts and the older globe designs with that dovetail (Lyman still makes them for the steel aperture inserts).

Anyways, I sure could use some advice for how to mount a front globe sight onto the 452 and 455 Lux CZ's. My preference would be for the 452 because it has the longer 24 inch barrel.

 

[CanuckCooper]

I have to apologize Biologist. Reading back what I had wrote and what you have quoted above, I fear what I wrote might lead people to believe their rifle wouldn’t be suitable or other rifles wouldn’t be suitable for this sport…

Regardless of what rifle you have or what it weighs, or it’s trigger weight, I encourage you to try shooting it as closely as you can as what’s described in those rules... Just because the rifle might be a little heavier, or the trigger a little lighter doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy shooting the same target in the same fashion and enjoy the spirit of the sport.

There might be non permanent things you can do to that 1907 to get it within those requirements or certainly closer to them. For example. At Nationals my rifle weighed in at 4.01kg initially and wasn’t allowed to proceed further in equipment inspection until that was remedied. I chalked it up to practicing in rainy conditions the week prior and figured the stock took on moisture. I removed the rail under the forend and got it down to 3.99 to pass inspection and get a seal. North Sylva has springs for the Anschutz trigger to make it adjustable to +/- 1kg. You could probably get that 1907 darn close at least, and unless you’re planing on shooting in provincials or nationals I would enjoy it as such the best you could.

Yes you’re exactly right, there are other Anschutz models such as the ones you listed that could be modified to work for Sporting rifle. How easy or difficult that would be, I’m not to certain. It’s my understanding that the 1903kk junior is just the easiest to get to meet those technical requirements, at least that’s what I was told and as such the direction I went. I had to replace that trigger spring as mentioned above which I got from a friend of mine who bought several from North Sylva. And I had to remove the rail for that one equipment inspection to get it under weight.

I’m sorry, I don’t know what would be involved in modifying your CZ to have globe styled sights. I’d imagine it could be done. I just don’t know what direction to point you in for that. I would suggest that CZ would likely make an outstanding hunting rifle though as it is.

I would probably point you in the direction of weighing your 1907 first and see if there’s weight that could be stripped off in a non permanent way and see what you can get. The 1907 would likely be superior for sporting rifle especially 3 position. The only other thing you’d need is that trigger spring, which would only take a call to north Sylva and a few bucks for them to send you one. I believe the sporting rifle guru there is Peter.

Would your club allow you to shoot from the prone with your rifle? Even though Sporting and Hunting rifle might not be offered as a discipline, you could still practice it and still participate in the SFC Coast to Coast events (remote matches every month). Perhaps invite others you shoot with up there to try it with you. I’d be happy to send you some targets to get you going if you require. Also participate here and post your shoots! It’s cool to see peoples progression.

I really appreciate your kind words. Thank you. I’m trying to spread this sport as best as I can. I find the SFC doesn’t necessarily do the best job at promoting it unfortunately. I’m still quite new to this sport having only discovered it earlier in the year. I’ve been very fortunate to have met the people that I have in it, and to have enjoyed the success I have had with it so far. The Sporting Rifle community might be small now, but I’d say it’s one of the most welcoming as they come. I love that it’s unique to Canada and has the history it has. I also like that one can participate in it with very little investment (no need to buy an Anschutz). And I think it would serve anyone very well, who shoots rifles. I’ve found it’s benefits in all of my other forms of shooting. It’s quickly become my favourite shooting sport. I sure hope you, and anyone else reading this gives it a try in any way they can.

 

[machohugeaxe]

Is there a difference between sporting rifle and target rifle? They don't have different rules right? I thought it was just sporting vs hunting

 

[CanuckCooper]

By target rifle, do you mean issf prone and 3p? If so yep they’re governed by different rules. Some pretty serious equipment and shooters in that sport. I always try to go watch them at matches.

 

[sillymike]

Is there a difference between sporting rifle and target rifle? They don't have different rules right? I thought it was just sporting vs hunting

Sporting rifle & Hunting rifle use the same target
- It's not the same as the ISSF Match rifle target

 

[machohugeaxe]

Ah I see, which one uses the jackets seen in the picture on the first post of this thread? Does sporting rifle use jackets with straps?

 

[CanuckCooper]

Ah I see, which one uses the jackets seen in the picture on the first post of this thread? Does sporting rifle use jackets with straps?

That would be sporting rifle.

 

[Biologist]

Re "jackets with straps".

From my reading of both ISSF "Target" and SFC "Sporting Rifle" rule books, these disciplines do not allow webbing cinch straps on shooting jackets (other than for juniors). Buttons only are allowed, and the jacket has to fit loose enough where the material can be pulled at least 7 cm past each button.

Webbing cinch straps to adjust the jacket as tight as you want are allowed in "Fullbore" and "High Power" centerfire rifle disciplines. Fullbore/High Power jackets also allow a non-slip material (e.g. Top Grip) on the left side of torso panel for the left support arm to rest against in standing position. The ISSF and SFC rules do not allow this on the torso panel for their jacket rules. However I see on the Kurt Thune catalogue that their higher-end ISSF style jackets have a low slip synthetic suede-like material called "Clarino" which is allowed on the torso panel. There is a plethora of fine print on all these rules and products.

All of the above allow the hook on the shoulder/sleeve for the sling.

Its good that I read the fine print in these various rule books because I was almost going to order a custom made-to-measure jacket from Creedmoor Sports for their "Deluxe Hardback Jacket", which is a webbing strap Fullbore/High Power style jacket, not realizing at the time that style is not allowed for the rimfire disciplines in Canada I was interested in.

My research continues for an ISSF/SFC style shooting jacket that is made-to-measure, since the standard sizes on all the charts I see will not fit my short awkward build (nothing fits off the rack, nothing). And which is not made in China.

 

[machohugeaxe]

Re "jackets with straps".

From my reading of both ISSF "Target" and SFC "Sporting Rifle" rule books, these disciplines do not allow webbing cinch straps on shooting jackets (other than for juniors). Buttons only are allowed, and the jacket has to fit loose enough where the material can be pulled at least 7 cm past each button.

Webbing cinch straps to adjust the jacket as tight as you want are allowed in "Fullbore" and "High Power" centerfire rifle disciplines. Fullbore/High Power jackets also allow a non-slip material (e.g. Top Grip) on the left side of torso panel for the left support arm to rest against in standing position. The ISSF and SFC rules do not allow this on the torso panel for their jacket rules. However I see on the Kurt Thune catalogue that their higher-end ISSF style jackets have a low slip synthetic suede-like material called "Clarino" which is allowed on the torso panel. There is a plethora of fine print on all these rules and products.

All of the above allow the hook on the shoulder/sleeve for the sling.

Its good that I read the fine print in these various rule books because I was almost going to order a custom made-to-measure jacket from Creedmoor Sports for their "Deluxe Hardback Jacket", which is a webbing strap Fullbore/High Power style jacket, not realizing at the time that style is not allowed for the rimfire disciplines in Canada I was interested in.

My research continues for an ISSF/SFC style shooting jacket that is made-to-measure, since the standard sizes on all the charts I see will not fit my short awkward build (nothing fits off the rack, nothing). And which is not made in China.

Thank you, very interesting.
I went to Project Mapleseed (Canadian version of Appleseed) last week and found it great for fundamentals. They do use a loop sling that connects the front of the rifle stock to the non-trigger side arm/shoulder. Then the forearm goes between the sling and the rifle to stabilize. Would you say the jacket hook/sling does pretty much the same thing? I found it helped a lot in all the positions.

i.e.

 

[CanuckCooper]

Thank you, very interesting.
I went to Project Mapleseed (Canadian version of Appleseed) last week and found it great for fundamentals. They do use a loop sling that connects the front of the rifle stock to the non-trigger side arm/shoulder. Then the forearm goes between the sling and the rifle to stabilize. Would you say the jacket hook/sling does pretty much the same thing? I found it helped a lot in all the positions.

There’s two straps on the shooting jackets permitted for sporting rifle and issf, one is on the support or weak side shoulder which is intended to hook under and keep the sling high up in position for issf shooting. Slings aren’t permitted in sporting rifle so that strap isn’t used for anything. The second set of straps are over the strong side shoulder which is used to adjust the fit and tightness of material where the rifles but pad rests. I adjust mine to try to minimize the sensation of heart beat/movement of the rifle. This took a bit of experimentation and I’m still playing with it. As biologist discovered above, those are the only straps permitted on the shooting jacket. Have a good read of the rules linked on post #1. At first it does seem like a lot, but once you see a match once and see how everything works it’s pretty straight forward and makes digesting the equipment related stuff a little easier. I’ll try to post some pictures from nationals so you can see sone of the equipment.

Also check back to post #1 as if tried to keep it updated with new info as best I can.

 

[Biologist]

Thank you, very interesting.
I went to Project Mapleseed (Canadian version of Appleseed) last week and found it great for fundamentals. They do use a loop sling that connects the front of the rifle stock to the non-trigger side arm/shoulder. Then the forearm goes between the sling and the rifle to stabilize. Would you say the jacket hook/sling does pretty much the same thing? I found it helped a lot in all the positions.

i.e.

The military style sling in the photo that cinches tight above the bicep is a very good system that is adaptable to many situations. And it can remain attached to the buttstock so as to be able to carry the rifle safely by the sling. A target rifle sling in ISSF rules is not allowed to be attached to the buttstock to carry the rifle, as I understand from reading the rule books. (Its a weird rule IMO). The sling can only be attached on the forearm of the stock, and its often just a friction fit ball joint that locks with the pull backwards, and is completely non-functional for carrying the rifle because it pops out and detaches if you were ever to try and carry the rifle! (again, a weird rule and design I do not understand). The hook on the shooting jacket for a non-cinched tight sling is essential to prevent it from slipping down too far on the upper arm. I have a new prone target sling for my target Anschutz, but no shooting jacket (yet), and in practicing without the jacket and hook, I found the sling always slips down too far, just like all the books say it will.

The Biathlon shooters use a detachable sling system where they wear an arm cuff on their support arm tight above the bicep that a hook on the sling hooks into a D ring on the cuff, only for their prone shooting.

 

[machohugeaxe]

SFC and sporting rifle combined have some of the lowest online content presence I've ever seen. At least ISSF has videos of all the championships. The SFC YouTube channel has 1 video on safety. Is sporting rifle specifically just a canadian thing? And I guess what is the context for its development? I.e. why would someone choose to shoot sporting vs ISSF match rifle vs both?
Note this is from the perspective of someone who first shot a firearm in July. I found smallbore fun and hunting rifle seemed accessible and LSBA provided a goal to work towards. I dont know much beyond that

 

[CanuckCooper]

SFC and sporting rifle combined have some of the lowest online content presence I've ever seen. At least ISSF has videos of all the championships. The SFC YouTube channel has 1 video on safety. Is sporting rifle specifically just a canadian thing? And I guess what is the context for its development? I.e. why would someone choose to shoot sporting vs ISSF match rifle vs both?
Note this is from the perspective of someone who first shot a firearm in July. I found smallbore fun and hunting rifle seemed accessible and LSBA provided a goal to work towards. I dont know much beyond that

You’re very right and that fact is a frustration of mine. The SFC does a terrible job of promoting the sport which has a great and lengthy history here. I do seek to change that. Yes Sporting rifle is specifically Canadian. It started back in 1935. It’s original purpose was to be somewhat of a gateway and training sport to graduate up into issf competition. It requires less equipment, permits less shooting aids and is far less costly to participate in. It seems to me Sporting rifle is spread primarily at the club level. I’ve found in Ontario it seems most clubs in large urban centres practice it (Ottawa RA club, several in the Toronto and immediate surrounding area, an some west of the city towards London). It seems if a shooter isn’t at a club that does it, they typically won’t know about it, which is a shame considering it’s history.

I compete in sporting rifle over issf primarily because of cost. I would love to do issf prone, 3p, and 10m air rifle. To do so and to be even marginally competitive would require a huge investment close to that of buying a decent new car. And I would have to be able travel extensively. You can be extremely competitive in sporting rifle with a minimal monetary investment. The greatest investment being your time into practice. Looking into issf, it appeared to me that several of the prominent shooters are current serving military. I’m not certain if there was a large level of support from the military was available to them to do the sport or not. Two colleagues of mine were both former reg force and both competed in biathlon, for one of them it was essentially his full time trade, the other was assigned to train biathlon 7 months out of the year. Both indicate all equipment was top of the line and provided, and travel and lodging was always covered. I don’t know if it’s the same for the current military athletes I’m familiar with. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have any issue if that is so or not. They’re amazing shooters. For me though, simply put I would not be able to afford whatsoever to compete at the level I’d like to in issf. And it seems currently I can compete against more participants in sporting rifle at the various levels of matches available from club level, various provincials, and nationals. Issf 10m air rifle would probably be the exception to numbers of participants, that sport seems to have quite a few shooters.

 

[machohugeaxe]

Thanks for the background. I am curious about it all as I am new. Most of the guys at my range are older guys who have been around for a long time. Due to scheduling, I cant usually chat with them too much.

I'll definitely look to get into sporting rifle as my experience with hunting rifle has been really fulfilling. I'll try to get more friends into it as well, but I feel like it definitely takes a certain mindset to enjoy it.

Is the bulk of the cost for ISSF shooting the equipment? What do you need beyond the rifle? Or is it just the rifle that's the big investment

 

[CanuckCooper]

Thanks for the background. I am curious about it all as I am new. Most of the guys at my range are older guys who have been around for a long time. Due to scheduling, I cant usually chat with them too much.

I'll definitely look to get into sporting rifle as my experience with hunting rifle has been really fulfilling. I'll try to get more friends into it as well, but I feel like it definitely takes a certain mindset to enjoy it.

Is the bulk of the cost for ISSF shooting the equipment? What do you need beyond the rifle? Or is it just the rifle that's the big investment

I’m glad to have helped. I hope you enjoy it. I’ve found the same. Coming from more action shooting sports I’ve found it to be a bit of a breath of fresh air. It’s also been beneficial to all of my shooting, that was the biggest surprise. I didn’t think it would have that benefit coming into it. That’s why I’d say any crps or rimfire precision series shooter should consider this sport along side that…

When I look at the issf shooters I’ve seen (they are awesome to see shoot!), I see some very expensive equipment. $4-5k per rifle, and likely another $2+k for their suit, $3-4 k for their own electronic target system for training. And who knows what else…. I’d imagine one could get into it for a lot less perhaps… I just don’t know how I’d compete with that or be able to afford to do it to any meaningful extent. I really enjoyed competing in sporting rifle at provincials and the nationals. I’d like to go to a couple other provinces for their provincial sporting rifle and hunting rifle championships if it’s feasible. So for me, at the moment I don’t see a path for me in issf prone, 3p, or air. I really enjoy sporting rifle, and it’s been affordable even at buying the best gear I could find for it. That said many of the best shooters in sporting rifle are doing so with $500 rifles and very little gear beyond that.

 

[CanuckCooper]

Re "jackets with straps".

From my reading of both ISSF "Target" and SFC "Sporting Rifle" rule books, these disciplines do not allow webbing cinch straps on shooting jackets (other than for juniors). Buttons only are allowed, and the jacket has to fit loose enough where the material can be pulled at least 7 cm past each button.

Webbing cinch straps to adjust the jacket as tight as you want are allowed in "Fullbore" and "High Power" centerfire rifle disciplines. Fullbore/High Power jackets also allow a non-slip material (e.g. Top Grip) on the left side of torso panel for the left support arm to rest against in standing position. The ISSF and SFC rules do not allow this on the torso panel for their jacket rules. However I see on the Kurt Thune catalogue that their higher-end ISSF style jackets have a low slip synthetic suede-like material called "Clarino" which is allowed on the torso panel. There is a plethora of fine print on all these rules and products.

All of the above allow the hook on the shoulder/sleeve for the sling.

Its good that I read the fine print in these various rule books because I was almost going to order a custom made-to-measure jacket from Creedmoor Sports for their "Deluxe Hardback Jacket", which is a webbing strap Fullbore/High Power style jacket, not realizing at the time that style is not allowed for the rimfire disciplines in Canada I was interested in.

My research continues for an ISSF/SFC style shooting jacket that is made-to-measure, since the standard sizes on all the charts I see will not fit my short awkward build (nothing fits off the rack, nothing). And which is not made in China.

I went with the Anschutz AHG standard plus jacket. It was really all I could find. I’m happy with it though. I do need to have it altered. It’s a bit long. LoL you’re not alone in the short awkward build dept.

Some random pictures from Nationals and a practice session: