Spotting Scopes $2500-$3500

[adamg]

You raise a valid question and the answer is I am uncertain to be honest. I want to spot hits on target at up to 1000m, so I figure I need the higer magnification of the spotting scope vs the 10 or 12x42 bino setup. I was thinking about the Vectronix Vector X, but I'm not sure it would fill that role of spotting 1000m hits. Disclaimer - I have never used/seen/touched a Vector X

As I mentioned above, I want to be able to spot hits on target (or misses of course) at up to 1000m. Secondary role would be hunting.

I had my VectorX 10x at the shooting range today for a NRL22 rimfire rifle match. First time having it outside and looking downrange.

I can tell you that the glass is mediocre and not the right choice for watching bullets fly in the air, or seeing hits on paper, or resolving subtle impact marks. I'd compare the glass to about a $1000 binocular.

 

[adamg]

To make it short... from my experience with spotting scopes I have three from a decade ago .... you adding one extra piece of equipment you need to take care. I didn't toke out my spotter from a drawer for at least 5-6 years.


Instead of buying a spotting scope for $2-3-4K - BUY a better Tier1 long range target scope!

I think this might be the best answer in the thread.

I have the Swaro NL Pure 12x42, which is the best binocular in the world by most metrics and costs around $4k.
I also have the Zero Compromise 5-27x56, which is a tier 1 scope and about $6k.

I can tell you that the ZC scope sees bullet marks on paper at long range better that the NL Pures. And as mentioned above, bringing a second piece of gear is a hassle and a liability.

You are better off combining your rifle scope and spotting scope budget into a better rifle scope.

 

[mikeyb]

In that price range I would look at Kowa first, the Prominars are excellent. You won't find anything from Vortex or Leupold that even come close.

Zeiss Gavia or Swaro ATS should/might be in that price range too, right up at the top of it, but you get what you pay for at that price point.

Nightforce has one in that range as well but I've never looked through one before. I'm not sure if Leica has anything in that range either but they would be worth checking out, too.

 

[Lakkenbak]

My best advice is to go to a birding forum. There are some people with a crazy amount of knowledge on spotters and bino's. I had some questions and chatted with a guy from Korea I think. And he has basically essays on every spotters/ bino on the market/ comparing most of them.

 

[wallz]

Even at your top end of $3500 you will be just shy of the kowa optics new, escpecially the 88 models. Ask me how I know! The bigger kowa spotters don't come up often used as guys tend to hang onto them.

Now that said, and I hate doing this in a forum, but I know of a used kowa tsn883 (angled) body and wide angle lens. (25-60). You could always add a multiplier(extender) on also.

I started with the swaro ATX 65 mm, then went to kowa tsn 773, then upgraded to the tsn 883 with the fluorite glass, and use it for my range days out to 1400m. I use it with the multiplier, and I mount my phone on it with a mag view adapter. I just recently got the tsn66 for my hiking trips as its a bit smaller in size and lighter. I personally think the kowa glass is better than the swaro. Not taking anything away from swaro, but my eyes like the kowa better, and my pocket book shows that. For me its kinda a shame to spend all that on spotters and then not be able to mount my phone on it to get video. As I said, all my range trips are on video now.

Tried the now harder to find, and changed names phone cam adapter.(phone cam) Alum ring that you mount to your phone and then mount to optics. It worked well, but I like the mag view a bit better as it is a bit faster, just not as sturdy. The phone cam let you fasten the phone at what ever angle you wanted on the scope, and the mag view is a bit harder to do that with. You could bump off the phone off the mag view adapter if you bumped into it hard. Mag view not tied to the phone case as much as it uses a metal plate on the phone case to mount to the magnetic adapter on the spotter. The phone cam has since been revamped and other phone case mounts have been added.

I think one of the site sponsors now carries mag view in Canada. I had to get everything direct from the US before.

 

[bigHUN]

... .... you adding one extra piece of equipment you need to take care. ...

I think this might be the best answer in the thread.
.... And as mentioned above, bringing a second piece of gear is a hassle and a liability.

You need to take in consideration two things.
Clustering you equipment,
also
Complicating the POA to POI information exchange between the two optics, also if you have a friend who gives you an eye for spotting.
Two separate units, the target scope and the spotting scope, especially if the two reticles ended up in different format .... MIL vs MOA vs whatever ... you know where that can lead.
Get a quality high power scope and you can see your own holes and you can adjust the offsset on your own without removing from the eye box.

 

[DGY]

From everything I read over the years kowa seams like the first choice of many!!

 

[ATRS Shaun]

A lot of good info in this thread, not all of it I agree 100% with, but it really depends on what you end up doing. If you're spotting for someone else, a spotting scope is huge. If you're spotting for yourself... not even a conversation worth having to be honest.

I had a Vortex Razor, 20-65x85 angled; and the picture was stellar, it held its own against anything I put near it. Colour, brightness, Phenomenal.
Down side ? Reticle options are fixed power, and lacking.
So it was an awesome scope for photography, with the DSLR adapter, and I have some great photos of the moon with it.
But I wanted a spotting scope, not another camera lens...
If I was chasing this path, I would do a longshot camera system as has been linked previously.



For Shooting though, the brightness and clarity, actually ended up being a detriment.
The... less bright... picture on a leupold mk4 showed far more mirage, bullet trace, etc.
And number one on my list : FFP Reticle. I wanted accurate subtensions at any magnification that I wanted to use.

I went with the 12-40x60 Mark 4 TMR.


The form factor is SO much smaller and SO much lighter, than a big 20-65, and for hunting this would be crucial. For spotting for others, being able to actually call corrections with reference points from a reticle, is so much better than 'two target widths left, one target low'.

I thought I wanted the angled eye piece, and I thought the brighter 85mm and higher magnification were going to be these huge things... I am far happier with the 12-40 and I've found the straight-but-small form factor of the leupold more comfortable.

Negative on the Leupold: Time to get one was LONG. US military was sucking them all up for a number of years, seem to be still.


Now don't get me wrong, I'm happy to order one in for you.. but it'll probably take a year or more;
And these guys, I swear are listing with 4 year old pricing. (Current MAP price is $3495.24).
They're in your neck of the woods I think, so might be worth looking at and decide what exactly do you want in a spotting scope.
https://www.bullseyenorth.com/shop/leupold-mark-4-1240x60mm-tactical-spotting-scope-10748

 

[maynard]

Not everyone shoots with a rifle on a rest looking at the target with magnification. In fact, us old school target rifle shooters are not looking through any optic at all when the shot is fired. When using paper target and manual target pullers the spotting scope is a must to estimate the wind call before firing the shot and see the spotting disc on the target. What the mirage looks like at the target in not as important as what is happening about 1/3 of the distance to the target. With the spotting scope focused 1/3 of the way down range the target will be out of focus but the mirage be very apparent. This will help you make a wild a$$ guess on what to put on the sight to hit the center of the target. There is a lot of information that you get from your spotting scope, knowing what to do with this information is where experience comes into play.

If you have ever shot a coached team match or have see one in progress you may see spotting scopes pointed in every direction. Not something that you can do if your only optic is mounted on a rifle.

 

[Slug870]

Not everyone shoots with a rifle on a rest looking at the target with magnification. In fact, us old school target rifle shooters are not looking through any optic at all when the shot is fired. When using paper target and manual target pullers the spotting scope is a must to estimate the wind call before firing the shot and see the spotting disc on the target. What the mirage looks like at the target in not as important as what is happening about 1/3 of the distance to the target. With the spotting scope focused 1/3 of the way down range the target will be out of focus but the mirage be very apparent. This will help you make a wild a$$ guess on what to put on the sight to hit the center of the target. There is a lot of information that you get from your spotting scope, knowing what to do with this information is where experience comes into play.

If you have ever shot a coached team match or have see one in progress you may see spotting scopes pointed in every direction. Not something that you can do if your only optic is mounted on a rifle.

Very insightful post, thank you for that.

 

[mikeyb]

Even at your top end of $3500 you will be just shy of the kowa optics new, escpecially the 88 models. Ask me how I know! The bigger kowa spotters don't come up often used as guys tend to hang onto them.

Now that said, and I hate doing this in a forum, but I know of a used kowa tsn883 (angled) body and wide angle lens. (25-60). You could always add a multiplier(extender) on also.

I started with the swaro ATX 65 mm, then went to kowa tsn 773, then upgraded to the tsn 883 with the fluorite glass, and use it for my range days out to 1400m. I use it with the multiplier, and I mount my phone on it with a mag view adapter. I just recently got the tsn66 for my hiking trips as its a bit smaller in size and lighter. I personally think the kowa glass is better than the swaro. Not taking anything away from swaro, but my eyes like the kowa better, and my pocket book shows that. For me its kinda a shame to spend all that on spotters and then not be able to mount my phone on it to get video. As I said, all my range trips are on video now.

Tried the now harder to find, and changed names phone cam adapter.(phone cam) Alum ring that you mount to your phone and then mount to optics. It worked well, but I like the mag view a bit better as it is a bit faster, just not as sturdy. The phone cam let you fasten the phone at what ever angle you wanted on the scope, and the mag view is a bit harder to do that with. You could bump off the phone off the mag view adapter if you bumped into it hard. Mag view not tied to the phone case as much as it uses a metal plate on the phone case to mount to the magnetic adapter on the spotter. The phone cam has since been revamped and other phone case mounts have been added.

I think one of the site sponsors now carries mag view in Canada. I had to get everything direct from the US before.

Precision Optics has the Kowa mini spotters on for $3k which is a solid deal, although I would prefer the 66 paired with a good set of 8x42 or 10x42 binos for all around usage.

It would be a damn shame if no one picked up this gem though: https://www.precisionoptics.net/CON...nar_Pure_Fluorite_17_p/consign-tsn-553-mb.htm

 

[Mr Bill]

I took the time to read all the previous posts and there is a good reason you see Kowa recommended so many times. I did have a shop set up at least a dozen spotting scopes for me to compare and after I saw the results I coughed up the extra coin for the big Kowa Prominar. No regrets. Seeing splash on painted steel is easy but bullet holes in the 6mm diameter becomes a challenge much beyond 550 yards. Need good stiff fresh flat paper, bright white, on flat plywood, not wet or previously rained on, good weather conditions, good sun without shadows on the paper. 30cal and 338cal holes can be seen to 700 yards if everything is perfect. My range is maxed out at 850 yards and after a good rain I can’t drive out to get a close look at the target or for that matter change out the paper until the swamp drains down a bit. If I really need to know I’ll fly the DJI drone down to the target and take a few pictures.
I always have a few Chinet paper dinner plates stapled up down range. They are water proof, tough and stay flat for weeks and bullet holes are very easy to see, especially if you have a Kowa. To me quality optics are as important as quality firearms. Spend the money and be happy.

 

[bankshot]

don't but zeiss i have one. its garbage its full of condensation , sent to zeiss service center they sent to zeiss USA wont fix it because they have never seen this before. this scope was babied

 

[stubblejumper]

l tried several spotting scopes, and settled on Kowa, the TSN 883 is excellent, but not in the price range specified.

 

[barrett50cal]

With that budget you should buy Kowa

…. I now use a KOWA with a 22x WA. ….

In that price range I would look at Kowa first, the Prominars are excellent. You won't find anything from Vortex or Leupold that even come close.

I started with the swaro ATX 65 mm, then went to kowa tsn 773, then upgraded to the tsn 883 with the fluorite glass, and use it for my range days out to 1400m. ….I personally think the kowa glass is better than the swaro. Not taking anything away from swaro, but my eyes like the kowa better, and my pocket book shows that.

From everything I read over the years kowa seams like the first choice of many!!

Precision Optics has the Kowa mini spotters on for $3k which is a solid deal, although I would prefer the 66 paired with a good set of 8x42 or 10x42 binos for all around usage.

It would be a damn shame if no one picked up this gem though: https://www.precisionoptics.net/CON...nar_Pure_Fluorite_17_p/consign-tsn-553-mb.htm

I took the time to read all the previous posts and there is a good reason you see Kowa recommended so many times. I did have a shop set up at least a dozen spotting scopes for me to compare and after I saw the results I coughed up the extra coin for the big Kowa Prominar. No regrets.

l tried several spotting scopes, and settled on Kowa, the TSN 883 is excellent, but not in the price range specified.

I agree with all these guys. Almost bought a Swaro but chose a Kowa instead.

Not sure how useful my input will be though, because I specifically wanted an ultralight, ultracompact spotting scope for hunting, and for target shooting at a spot where I have to hop a fence and hike in a ways. Also something small enough to fit in my range bag.

The only two choices at the time (for the glass quality I wanted) were the Swarovski ATC 17-40x56mm… and the Kowa TSN Prominar 553 15-45x55mm. Both around 30 oz (give or take) and around 10” long. That’s less than half the weight of my old Celestion Regal M2 and almost half the size.

There were literally no other contenders (at the time) that were that small and light, with premium glass.

I had the chance to spend time with both before I bought. Here’s a quick comparison:

The Swaro has great glass, slightly larger FOV (ideal for hunting or any kind of grid glassing), better eye relief, and a more forgiving eyebox. Nicely armoured in a rubber coat, and Swaro lens caps are among the best out there.

The Kowa has equal image quality / resolution and clarity, edge to edge. Maybe a hair better than the Swaro to my eyes but it was close. Low light performance was equal with the Swaro. As expected, neither was as good in low light as the bigger Swaro ATS with the 65mm objective.

The Kowa has the better focusing system — maybe the best out there — the coarse and fine adjusts are fast and precise. All ultralight scopes are inherently more stable on smaller tripods, but the Kowa’s focusing system has less potential for destabilization and movement compared to the big helical barrel focus on the Swaro. The Kowa also has an integral retracting sunshade, which I like.

Kowa’s flourite crystal is not a marketing gimmick either, it’s technically not glass but a synthetic (artificial) crystal grown in house with optical properties beyond what ED glass is capable of. The pure crystalline structure means almost no chromatic aberration and high light transmission (ie. clarity and brightness).

Kowa used to only use fluorite crystal in their premium Prominar-88 series until the TSN-553 series came with it, making the 553 series a real bargain, in a sense.

Here’s my Kowa Prominar 553. The black ring in the middle is an aftermarket AZIAK Arca Swiss mount rotating adapter. The pouch is from Marsupial Gear and fits perfectly.

I’ll be honest: to this day I get a little spark of happiness every time I look through this thing. I love it and would highly recommend checking out Kowa.

 

[Butcherbill]

With that budget you should buy Kowa

This^^^

I saw a bird watcher on the side of the highway and stopped to pick his brain about spotters, he had a Kowa and was kind enough to let me take a look through it. Man was it nice, even zoomed at the max it was clear and crisp. If I ever buy a spotting scope it will be a Kowa.

 

[Blockcaver]

Really like the Swaro ATC. Compact and to my old eyes was equal to and better than my 13 year old Swaro 20-60x65mm ATM for clarity as well as low light performance.

 

[Grumpy O Guy]

I have been down that particular rabbet hole myself.
One thing to consider is that for terrestrial viewing there is a point where atmospheric conditions become the limiting factor and better optics will be of no help at all.
My advise is to buy quality optics with all the features and light gathering that matters to you but keep in mind that absolute top of the line is deep into diminishing returns for your money.
The bird watching retailers usually are good about letting you test out scopes to get some hands on if there are any in your area.
For optics in general its always best to try before you buy as we are all different and buyers remorse sucks.

 

[sillymike]

What he says

Seeing bullet holes at 1000M is somewhat optimistic. Humidity/heat/mirage/distance will quickly have negative impact on your ability to have have a clear picture.

If you have the $, Swaro/Kowa/Leica are real nice.
- For about 1/2 the cost, I went with a Pentax PF80. As a bonus, it uses 1.25" astro. Eyepieces.

If you are not optic-snob, the Celestron HD spotting scopes are pretty nice for not much $.
- Just replace the factory eyepieces

Personally, I like fixed one, as they'll usually have wider FOV and longer eyerelief