Springfield M1A Standard vs. Super Match

Donster 125

CGN frequent flyer
EE Expired
Rating - 100%
59   0   0
Location
Toronto
Hey everyone,

I just had a quick question. I want to buy an M1A (M14 for the layperson), and im torn between the Springfield M1A Super Match and the M1A Standard.

Essentially, the Super Match is claimed to be the pinnacle in M14 accuracy, while the M1A is just the standard rifle.

My question is: Is the Super Match really worth the extra $2000?

I want the M14 for hunting and bench shooting. Will i be fine with the Standard rifle? Im open to your thoughts and opinions.

Just so there is no confusion, i am referring to the Springfield M1A rifles. I do not want to hear about the Norinco rifles. I will not buy a Norinco rifle, nor do i want to buy a Norinco rifle.

I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and opinions on the matter CGN :)

Link to the Springfield site: http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=16

My second question is relatively simple:

Is the Black fiber stock really that much superior to the Walnut stock? I know wood can expand and contract based on the weather, but is it really to a degree that will effect the performance of the rifle?

Thanks to all who post,

D
 
All depends what end purpose you have in mind. For my competition use(s) back in the day, I would buy a standard M1A and then tweak it since I have access and knowledge and tools to carry out the fun tweaking process. For many people who just want to shoot the Super Match, the extra $$ is worth spending.

Then there is the issue of the included stock and barrel (biggest additions) that come with the Super Match version. Does one have access to this barrel through other means? Currently they are difficult and more expensive to import. If you can buy it complete, then that is the easier route for you. Some of the upper end versions of the M1A come with a McMillan (fat bastard profile) glass stock which is super stiff for LR shooting. This is stock is much more expensive to import by itself. This may help make up your mind.

About stocks... We can all agree on one thing: Wood stocks compress under trigger guard pressure. What is your end use? If it's for competition (join us at the Ontario Rifle Association) then go with the glass stock(s). The decision is made for you if you are super serious about competition. If the stock is used for fondling (like I fondle my M1 Garand in the Boyd's walnut stock... and my background is competition) while watching "Band of Brothers", then by all means stick with the wood stocks. Somewhere in that decision making, you have to realize that wood stocks can be glass bedded to ensure a skin tight fit BUT (big but) sooner or later when the wood compresses over the years, additional skim bedding (I had to do this... because this Winchester M14 had a beautiful USGI walnut stock) will have to be added. The barreled receiver would loosen up inside the glass bedding job. We would put over 100 rounds a weekend over the 5 month season. A common compromise would be to buy/find a wood stock made of dense (hope I got my species right) birch or hickory or cherry hardwood. More dense than walnut anyways. Find a nice dark walnut stain, glass bed with Devcon, and then have at 'er with the stain.

I even had a client call his birch stock walnut because he could not stand the thought of birch, but wanted to look, feel, and know that it's walnut instead of birch. He was lucky. He found this birch USGI M14 NM (read: fast bastard profile for stiffness) at a local gun show in TO for $ 40. Nobody wanted it, maybe it was because people wanted walnut. I don't know. Either way, he scored the stock and vigorously searched for a stain that would mimic walnut. He bought some USGI FA parts and resin'ed them into place as a 'dummy selector' to fill up the "unsightly to him" FA cavities. His M1A sure looks good in that stock. He disliked the cold feel of the Mcmillan match fiberglass stocks. He felt right at home back in 1989 when he drove to Camp Perry and saw many, many wood stocks (likely made by Boyd's and Fajen) with fat profiles on the Ohio firing line, alongside all the Mcmillan stocked USMC team rifles. ;) I helped him glass (Bisonite at the time) that rifle into that stock and he was pleased. Once he learned how to carry out that job, he did his own skim bedding. Teach a man to fish.....


Then there is the tuning of all the internal parts.... Do you trust the factory folks at Geneseo, Illinois to do the work? Many of you out there are pretty good these days. Several of you have PM'ed me offering advice from your trades backgrounds. That's cool. Now I can show you and away you go!

The next issue is the glass bedding. Factory bedding jobs save you all that energy. Unless you want to do it yourself, it's best left to others who do it for a living. All depends on what portion of the learning curve your skills are at. If you are super comfortable, then by all means get the Standard one and glass bed it yourself with your choice of bedding material(s).

So, many factors to weigh out.... some people like to build (used to do this many times) up their M1A from the receiver. I have advised many people on this board through that process. That was long ago before 2003 when USGI parts were super available on ebay. Those days are gone. Today all the current restrictions make sourcing your prize build more difficult and prohibitive.

Anyways, back to the end use of the rifle. Are you going to shoot it on Sundays with good weather (like my .308 Krieger barreled M1 Garand, or at Vintage rifle matches) or are you going to shoot it in Service Rifle matches 1-12 with your PRA? Maybe you are going to truly work that M1A and shoot our ORA Service Rifle matches of 200 rds per weekend from 400m / yd all the way down to 15 m/yd? I do know of an M1A owner who pushes his Springfield to the limit doing the ORA Service Rifle and Service CQB (35m to 15m). He truly knows how to shoot! :D

I also know of a Montreal area shooter who continuously shoots his CHU wood :eek: Norc M14 and boots my ass! He is that good with a box stock, never tuned, never attended a Hungry clinic Norc M14. Great shooting skills and less emphasis on the tool(s). :)
Many decisions! Enjoy the addiction!

Cheers,
Barney
 
Last edited:
Thanks very much for the answer! it was very detailed and informative!

It sounds like the Super match is the way to go in terms of accuracy and "upgrades" that come with the gun. Me being not mechanically inclined, i think i would be better off getting a gun that comes "pre-upgraded" as opposed to doing it myself.

Especially if sourcing parts has gotten as difficult as you say it did = (
 
Having all the current ITAR restrictions on parts from the USA really put a damper on things. I remember buying USGI trigger groups for under $ 70 US back in 2002. I bought 3 barrels on separate auctions from Fleabay for around $ 99 each. All 3 of them were Douglas NM barrels that had merely 3000 or fewer rounds through the pipe. All 3 sellers were Master Class or High Master class shooters who claimed that their barrels were costing them X ring count/points. :eek:

So when I landed all 3 barrels here, I built up some fine shooting Norc's with USGI parts (complete, I must say). Every one of those barrels were grouping into 3/4" and my bench technique sucked royally (still does these days). The groups regularly stayed inside that 3/4" and I was bored! I actually looked like a hero for a while because of my fabulous groups. Even my wife said, "You are pretty good." I denied that and said that the rifles I built made me look good.

I sold all of them , one at a time for around $ 1000. Yes, they all had USGI parts on them. That was a long time ago. :rolleyes:

Now, about the Super Match version... they PING like mad because everything (all the tweaks I teach you to do at my clinics) is done to them. I mean the tightening, the shimming, the unitizing of the gas cylinder, the bedding, timing the oprod/gas piston relationship. It's all done! :D So when one racks the op rod, the rifle 'pings' just like I showed you in my clinics.

And if you are hunting, that Super Match (even the standard version) is gonna be a bit heavy, unless you are up in a stand. I hunt with my skinny bbl'ed Norc M14 and it can get heavy pushing bush, but I just walk alongside the tree line.... lighter rifle that way.

Have at 'er!

Cheers,
Barney
 
I'm still pretty new to the M14 world but would like to push the weight question a little farther.

When you hunt, do you hike, patrol, go in the bush and cover distances?
Will you enjoy it with a 12 pounds rifle? Or 14 with a scope, mag and sling?

It's not very well advertised but SAI offers 3 barrel profile:
-standard on standard rifles (really!)
-medium on loaded rifles
-heavy on others

The loaded is only .5 pounds heavier than standard. It's accuracy is really better. It's not bedded (save weight) but has match trigger and sights. Plus it's only 200$ more than standard rifle.

My loaded shoots great without modification. I really feel I picked the right one. A few month ago there was a post on the loaded model in this forum. Everyone reported the same good accuracy and satisfaction. I carry it to remote areas but I'm in good shape at a lean 5'10" 185pnds.

Now if you drive your car to your shooting bench and your ATV to your hunting stand, or if you're a strong 250 pounds guy, go with the SuperMatch!

Good luck!
 
I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll start one up on a hunting theme.....
With all the respect that you deserve Hungry, I thought this thread was about choosing a rifle for bench-rest and hunting. Isn't?

Hungry here: Yup, you are right there. I just wanted to keep things between the Super Match vs. the Standard decision for the hunting end of the original poster. It's all good! :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bisonite is great stuff - Jason at Gunco has a bunch of it hoarded and personally I prefer it to Devcon or Acraglass. It's also walnut brown, which is nice.

If a walnut stock is properly bedded and the triger guard is relaxed when in storage, a wood stock can last as long as a fibreglass USGI stock, which oddly, is not known for its endurance???.

I just like walnut and am in the process of witching from FG to bedded walnut USGI on my match rifle.

now to the OP's question - I would not buy a new supermatch - period. If I did, I would change the receiver immediately. And this is not a plug for Norinco - even an AR sales, LRB, normal M1A receiver is better then the SM receivers being put out now. The new arrangement os the spring-loaded ball bearing detent doo-hickey they are using for their sorry excuse for NM sights is just cr@p. You've be far better off biting the bullet and getting porperly designed aftermarket NM sights than trying to make a silk purse out of he sow's ear that SAI is peddling as a NM sight setup. AFAIk, the receiver isn;t set up to be able to take proper sights so you'd need a receiver swap.
 
Bisonite is great stuff - Jason at Gunco has a bunch of it hoarded and personally I prefer it to Devcon or Acraglass. It's also walnut brown, which is nice.

If a walnut stock is properly bedded and the triger guard is relaxed when in storage, a wood stock can last as long as a fibreglass USGI stock, which oddly, is not known for its endurance???.

I just like walnut and am in the process of witching from FG to bedded walnut USGI on my match rifle.

now to the OP's question - I would not buy a new supermatch - period. If I did, I would change the receiver immediately. And this is not a plug for Norinco - even an AR sales, LRB, normal M1A receiver is better then the SM receivers being put out now. The new arrangement os the spring-loaded ball bearing detent doo-hickey they are using for their sorry excuse for NM sights is just cr@p. You've be far better off biting the bullet and getting porperly designed aftermarket NM sights than trying to make a silk purse out of he sow's ear that SAI is peddling as a NM sight setup. AFAIk, the receiver isn;t set up to be able to take proper sights so you'd need a receiver swap.

that is very interesting about the wood stock. personally, i prefer wood. knowing that, i will opt for the wood stock.

as for the iron sight issue, im afriad i dont understand. perhaps its lost in translation, or i am just being slow at the moment. does the Super Match come with iron sights?

While i do plan on running a scope (most likely a Trijicon Accupoint), i would prefer if the gun had stock iron sights. From the pictures, it looked as if the Super Match DID have iron sights. Was i mistaken?
 
Have you read the stickies in the BATTLE RIFLE SECTION,
regarding the M14 type rifles??

I've owned FIVE SA M1A rifles,
including a Match in Walnut
and a SS barreled SUPER Match in a glass McMillan stock.
All of these M1A rifles were the more desirable older models,
that came with all GI parts.

I've also owned about three dozen GENUINE USGI M14 rifles, and well over a hundred Norinco M14 rifles, including several dozen that I dropped all GI parts into.

I also built up one of my M1A standard rifles into a MATCH,
using all GI parts and a GI glass stock.

All three of these M1A "match" rifles shot about equally as well, depending on which brand of 168 GR HPBT match ammo they liked best. So did my "match built" Norinco, again using all GI parts.

Both the Springfield match rifles [ and all the standards ] needed some "tweaking" and some repairs when I got them.

AS A FACT,
based on my personal experience repairing/rebuilding/accurising hundreds of M14 type rifles,
and as reported by numerous sources on the internet,
NEW Springfield M1A rifles all too often come with various defects that require trips back to SA for warranty work.
And in some cases, SEVERAL visits back to get it finally right!

I have personally seen a brand new M1A that had a used GI bolt just dropped in, with absolutely no effort made to lap in the bolt lugs ... and this was a return from an SA factory warranty visit.

Also a SS barreled "LOADED" M1A with the chamber reamed too quickly, which resulted in radial grooves inside the supposed- to- be flawlessly shiny chamber.

And some M1A receivers with out of spec receiver bridges, receiver lug cuts, and OOPS ... forgetting to relieve the receiver with a half moon cut out for the bolt roller, so the bolt roller will self destruct in a few hundred rounds.

There is a reason why so many experienced M14 type rifle shooters swear BY the in spec FORGED Norinco receivers, and swear AT the out of spec CAST Springfield receivers.

[;{)
LAZ 1

[ former M14 gun guy,
but now I shoot mostly AR 10s and AR 15s ]

Although,
I did have my shorty M14 Norc build in the foilding stock out last week.
Shooting against my full length AR 10, for the CQB/truck gun/hunting/ SHTF/best bang for the Buck roles,
I still like the M14 shorties ...
A LOT!!!
 
Have you read the stickies in the BATTLE RIFLE SECTION,
regarding the M14 type rifles??

i have taken a look, but even at a cursory glance, i saw that it was predominately concerning Norinco built rifles. I have a strong distrust of anything weapon related coming out of china, with regards to tolerences and quality of parts used, hence my question on the springfield rifles.
 
Your distrust of Chinese M14 receivers is misplaced. These were, by and large, made to US specifications in the early 1990's and were intended to sell at a higher price point than they do in Canada where the distributor has been forced to dump them due to US import restrictions.

We are very lucky with these, while Americans, for years, were forced to make do with the M1A.
 
I have a strong distrust of anything weapon related coming out of china, with regards to tolerences and quality of parts used, hence my question on the springfield rifles.

I too accept a TV from China but not a firearm. BUT the Norinco M14 receivers are recognized as one of the best. If you change your mind, there's actually 2 nice M14 builds in the Equipment Exchange (military section) for around 2000$.
 
Donster, you may want to check with a dealer like Dianne at P&D.
I had a "souped-up" Springfield on order for over one year and it appears the US will no longer export the firearm any more "because it has 7.62 NATO stamped on the barrel".
I was very disappointed to say the least. My views were similar to yours.
This situation might influence your final decision. Of course you might pick one up on EE. Good luck!
 
This is a little out in left field, especially since im pulling this thread back from the dead, but how are those JAE stocks? I might just purchase a standard M1A, and slap one of those on. Does anyone have any experience with those stocks?
 
This is a little out in left field, especially since im pulling this thread back from the dead, but how are those JAE stocks? I might just purchase a standard M1A, and slap one of those on. Does anyone have any experience with those stocks?

Reviews are that it's a great stock for accuracy. But it's one of the heaviest stock. Could be better suited with a heavier barrel.

Your barrel is the standard barrel (lightest). If you want to carry your rifle and keep quick handling, I'd suggest you get a Sage stock. Sage stock are lighter, cheaper and probably as accurate as JAE.
 
Why not contact the M14 Doctor, and discuss a build with him.

Your likely to get more bang for your buck than buying Springfield factory and if you ever have problems with the gun or need it maintained he can provide that service for you as well.

I'd rather not want be to in the situation of sending a rifle back to Springfield for warranty work if something went wrong.

Just my .02
 
Reviews are that it's a great stock for accuracy. But it's one of the heaviest stock. Could be better suited with a heavier barrel.

Your barrel is the standard barrel (lightest). If you want to carry your rifle and keep quick handling, I'd suggest you get a Sage stock. Sage stock are lighter, cheaper and probably as accurate as JAE.

thanks for the info. I think given the fact that the Super Match is so expensive, and the fact that comp stocks are better than wood (given that wood is affected by temperature more), i am better off custom building an M14 with the parts that i want, and then getting the JAE stock.

I was told that part of the reason why the Super Match is so expensive is becuase of all the upgrades that go into the gun, part of them being the work involved with the stock (bedding and whatnot).

So if i just get a standard M1A, slap on a heavy barrel and the JAE stock, i will have a gun (in theory) that rivals the super match and looks even more badass.
 
Why not contact the M14 Doctor, and discuss a build with him.

Your likely to get more bang for your buck than buying Springfield factory and if you ever have problems with the gun or need it maintained he can provide that service for you as well.

I'd rather not want be to in the situation of sending a rifle back to Springfield for warranty work if something went wrong.

Just my .02

good to note. i just might do that. is that his USR name?
 
Back
Top Bottom