Springfield Trap door...Pics Up!!

Sorry, but that is not an original carbine. 19th Century Bubba took a file and saw to a musket (proportions are all wrong).
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Ya mean the wood?....or the whole gun?
Its not a musket conversion...Im pretty sure of that



Barrel should be 22 inches long. Serial number is found across the forward edge of the breech plug tang
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Thats where I thought it should be. There are marks there but they are to faint to read.

I also just noticed the front sight is marked "SHEARD MARBLE"
 
The M1884 carbine should have a butt trap for a jointed cleaning rod and the M1882 headless shell extractor. The rear sight should be stamped C for carbine.
 
The shape of the stock is wrong around the barrel band and bandspring. Also the length of the barrel is not right. Also the overall proportion of the gun are not in right for a carbine. The rear sight is a Model 1884 rifle sight and not a carbine sight. Its position on your rifle barrel is wrong for a carbine, to me it confirms your rifle was once a full length rifle before Bubba got to it. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this one is not quite kosher unfortunately.
 
Yaa.....I think yer right now. Been sittin here wasting my life digging through web sites.

The stock has a groove at the forend where a cleaning rod would obviously go. The carbines didnt have a cleaning rod

Also...I cant find any pics of a carbine with the sling swivel on the trigger guard.

Also...it has no 'rail/ring' on the left side of the stock(saddle ring?)

Now....how about you guys that know about this stuff lemme know what an original one is worth.... and maybe I will tell ya what I paid for this one :roll:

Im not really bothered by it not being the 'real thing' ...Its still a nifty piece and should shoot A-OK
 
Original carbines didn't have a sling swivel on the trigger guard bow, as they had a sling bar and ring on the opposite side of the stock to the lock-plate.
If you check the bottom front of the stock, you will likely find what's left of the ram-rod channel after the rifle stock was shortened.
Rifles were fitted with 32.6" barrels except for the Cadet rifles which had 29.6", and carbines had 22" barrels.
It was apparently common for the surplus rifles to be shortened to make them handier to tote around.
Regardless of how it started out, it's still going to be a fun shooting gun with the right loads.
Regards, DaveF.
 
Claven2 said:
Best of all, it's not registered, RIGHT?
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Correct....Genuine Antique.... :D

So....considering everything...WHATS IT WORTH??

I dont reload (yet) so Im gonna wait to get some of that 'cowboy ammo'. I think factory stuff might be a little hot for this antique
 
mooncoon said:
The year on the reciever is the year of production. There are differences in the early trapdoors and the later ones. The earliest ones have a solid bottom to the breach block while the later ones have a hollow milled out. The earliest ones also have the ejector/extractor as a small little tab on the top center while the later ones have a slightly large one the left side.
Finally be sure that the short barrel shows not signs of trimming; many of the rifles have been chopped to create carbines.

cheers mooncoon
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You are not going to like me for this, but the date on the block IS NOT the year of production. It indicates model changes. 1873, 1879, 1884
The early breech blocks had a HIGH Arch on the underside and a spring loaded firing pin.
The low arch was on the 79 and 84 models.
Easy to spot differences are the rear sights. 73 had a stepped rear sight, 79 had a ski ramp style, and the 84, or buffington sight was totaly different with adjustments for windage.
I have never seen a trap door with a small tab extractor in the centre, and I have owned 35 of them.
 
John Sukey said:
You are not going to like me for this, but the date on the block IS NOT the year of production. It indicates model changes. 1873, 1879, 1884
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Why wouldnt I like you?

I just wanna figure out what I have...The info and web sites are much appreciated.

Ohh...and the barrel measures 26 1/2" muzzle to bolt face. Definatley cut

Anybody got a ballpark value?
 
I agree, it looks like a standard 1884 musket chopped! The 1884 musket is one of the most common trapdoors. Still a nice gun but not real valuable :( I sold a minty 84 musket a couple years ago for the outragious price of $1200.
I kept a 73 50-70 to shoot that's just beautiful except someone bubba'd it to 22".
What a shame it also has a mirror barrel with perfect rifling :roll:
I paid $400. for the 50-70 because I liked it :D
 
I shouldn't think its a bubba, but certainly it was a rifle at one time. The rear sight is a Buffington. A carbine would not have a sling swivel on the trigger guard.
I imagine the work was done a very long time ago. Look carefuly to see where the cleaning rod channel has been filled in.
A minot note an 84 carbine would also have a trap in the buttplate for the thre piece cleaning rod.

The inspectors mark on a rifle is quite near the rear lock screw. It is much lower on a carbine due to the design of the sling bar.
 
But why are you folks calling it a musket? Its a RIFLE.

should be lots of fun to shoot. I actualy prefer black powder.
1. for the stink (see item 2)
2. because you can choke out the guy in the next firing point. :lol:
3. That's what it was designed to shoot.
 
Sears 1902 catalogue listed M1884 rifles barrel cut to 26" and stock shortened with 20 ctgs $3.75.
 
John Sukey wrote;
The early breech blocks had a HIGH Arch on the underside and a spring loaded firing pin.
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1866SpringfieldProfileb.jpg


Hopefully this image shows two things; the breach has no arch to the breach block and the reciever is not separate but has actually been formed from the breach end of a percussion Springfield rifle. The breach block is stamped 1866. This gun was factory sleeved from .58 muzzle loader to .50-70 cartridge

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John also wrote;

I have never seen a trap door with a small tab extractor in the centre, and I have owned 35 of them.
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1866Springfieldactionb.jpg


Hopefully you can see the small centrally mounted extractor/ejector tab in the center of the reciever in this photo.

cheers mooncoon
 
Allright you win that one. but then I only had one 66 and one 66cadet(58rimfire)
The breechblock statement does hold true for the 45-70 trapdoors.

Keep in mind I sold off the trapdoors and started on Lee-Enfields about 40 years ago. :wink:
Only have a Rod bayonet model left.
 
Thats definitley a buffington rear sight, as you know it is a cut down rifle. That rifle looks like one that was in Wholesale Sports -Calgary store about a year ago, I believe they were asking $400.00
 
I have to confess that I only noticed the differences in the lack of separate reciever and the center extractor a couple of days ago and I have had the gun for several years :>) I find myself wondering why the extractor was moved to the side because the top center position is easier to fit and were it widened would probably grip the shell better. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the side mount flips the shell back better or farther as i doubt that the center position has a spring behind it.

cheers mooncoon
 
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