While it could certainly be articulated and argued that the Trapdoor had its short comings as a combat weapon, it was and is unquestionably a very historic rifle that came about and was issued during a fascinating time in American history. I will certainly look up that book as it sounds like a great read, but it won’t change my mind in wanting one to complete my US 1860 and 1870s collection!
Springfield Trapdoors in Canada
- Thread starter RangeRover
- Start date
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Most of the problems associated to the TD were from the "foil made" ammo of the time, once the weapon became fowled a bit and brass started to stick, the foil rims weren't strong enough for reliable extraction. I have read that most "after action reports of the day claimed "many Springfield rifles used in battles had fired cartridges stuck in the chamber that the rims were pulled through".
It wasn't the rifles fault so to speak...the other common cause of #####ing over the TD came from the RB promoters in the military. One of the reasons I read long ago for the army choosing the TD over the Remington RB model was the TD has much more leverage pressure available to seat a poorly manufactured round than the RB, The RB only has whatever pressure your thumb can press....again an ammo of the times consideration.
It wasn't the rifles fault so to speak...the other common cause of #####ing over the TD came from the RB promoters in the military. One of the reasons I read long ago for the army choosing the TD over the Remington RB model was the TD has much more leverage pressure available to seat a poorly manufactured round than the RB, The RB only has whatever pressure your thumb can press....again an ammo of the times consideration.
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
I don't recall seeing any at gunshows or auctions up here but have seen published photo's of foil .45 govnt. cartridges.
I believe much of the problem, as reported from Reno's companies at the Little Big Horn battle, was due to the cases being made of copper rather than brass. I recall reading of an office passing around a cleaning rod from a rifle he had to punch out cases from the troopers carbines.
You are correct, there is no such thing as "foil wrapped" 45-70 or 50-70 ammunition made during the era of the Trapdoor.
As a note here for fingers284...The "Trapdoor" was designed as a breechloading conversion of a Civil War Musket. The first true conversion was the Model 1865 chambered for a 58 rimfire. Ballistically it was not an improvement from the musket load, other then being a self contained rimfire cartridge. The Model 1866 was chambered in 50-70-450 and utilized a much simpler breech mechanism. These were followed by the Model 1868 and model 1870 both in 50-70 caliber. The first 45-70 trapdoor breechloader was introduced in 1873. The true reason for choosing the trapdoor was cost savings, as obsolete muskets could be used to produced the breechloaders up to 1873. The Model 1865 had a production of 5000 guns, the Model 1866 was 50,000. During these early production runs all ammunition supplied to the troops was copper cased. Brass cases did not appear till the early 1880's, even though commercial suppliers were using brass much earlier.
worth mentioning that the 1866 and perhaps later 50-70 models were muskets sleeved down to 50 caliber. The hinge portion of the breach was held on to the back of the barrel with screws. When the army dropped to 45-70, the breach became a separate unit with the barrel screwed to the receiver
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
Well, the search continues. I have purchased some of the reference books listed here (thank you) but so far have only found one Trapdoor this side of the border. Low price, but with condition issues including a breech that looks like a previous owner had taken a screwdriver to pry fired rounds out of the chamber. Big gouges.
So, I have put a WTB ad on the EE to see if I can shake anything loose.
So, I have put a WTB ad on the EE to see if I can shake anything loose.
Something that has only lightly been touched on, is what do you want the gun for? Many of the previous comments have dealt with guns which are more or less still completely original. I think guns in that condition are relatively few compared to guns that have been "sporterized" to varying degrees. My own interest is primarily towards guns that I can shoot as well as the merits and demerits of specific actions. That philosophy brings the price down a bit. With that in mind, I have two trapdoors; one in 38-55 which started out as an MGM movie gun that I bought as a chopped off short barreled gun and the other is in 45-70 which appears to be completely refurbished and spent some time in Germany. I doubt that either would interest collectors
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
Sounds like interesting stories behind both of yours, Mooncoon. Care to share more?
While I don’t have much appreciation for sporters, preferring rifles in full trim, I am firmly on the shooter-grade side of things rather than collector-grade. More comfortable taking those to the range, and I can better afford them.
Now that’s just cruel.
Seriously, though, nice rifle and sorry to have missed it. Thanks for checking with the purchaser.
