I had the good luck to find myself a mosin nagant m44 carbine, and was estatic to find it had un defaced eagels and and swastikas on it with a little double lightening bolt SS just at the bottom left hand side of the swastika...just wondered how man others have run into them here in Canada I've handled alot of Nagants and this is the first Nazi reissue one I'v seen (not the first that I've heard of)....leaves me wondering how the hell it found its way here.
SS siezed and reissued Mosin Nagants?
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PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Shawinigan (Quebec)
Pic! PIIIICS!!!!
Pretty please?
PP.
Pretty please?
PP.
During the early stage of the invasion of the USSR, the German captured hundred of thousands of Soviets small arms and thousands of artillery pieces. (not to mention hundred of thousands of POW) The German even built a tank destroyer, Marder III using a Soviet 76mm gun. The captured rifles were mostly issued to collaborator units.
I got it for nothing pretty much free, ...its a late war 1945 marked 44 carbine the parts on it are not force matched and its a war issue stock the bolt mag and reaciver are marked with an eagle and swastika thats the same in size and stamping as on all my other german weapons the SS marks are at the bottom left hand corner of the eagle and swastika under the swastika ther is what looks to be the number 63.. finish is all worn off ....on the stock in front of the mag and on the wrist just behind the trigger guard there is a larger eagle and swastika stamp kind of what I'd think of as a cartouch stamp.
mikerock, there were literally hundreds of the capture marked M44 rifles on the Canadian market. They often show up at gunshows and garage sales. I can't really believe that the extra $10 that you might get for one so marked would make fakery worth while.
I do understand where you're coming from though as there are a lot of fake put togethers of almost every sort out there these days. It also doesn't help things when so many milsurps went through field expediant repairs and subsequent refurbs, before and after the war. There are so many mixmaster parts on some rifles, especially mausers and lee enfields that were put on during manufacture that it takes a real expert to tell which is correct, even then there is doubt.
I do understand where you're coming from though as there are a lot of fake put togethers of almost every sort out there these days. It also doesn't help things when so many milsurps went through field expediant repairs and subsequent refurbs, before and after the war. There are so many mixmaster parts on some rifles, especially mausers and lee enfields that were put on during manufacture that it takes a real expert to tell which is correct, even then there is doubt.
My vote is on a fake for the following reasons:
1. It costs nothing to add a stamp and when the rifles first came out, people wouldn't have been a wery so they would fetch a premium.
2. Look at the date of the rifle 1945, the Russians were knocking on Berlin's doors by the time a 1945 dated rifle hit the front lines. For it then to have been captured and sent back to a central processing point, inspected and then re-issued is a very improbable senerio. By that stage every captured weapon would have been turned around on the front.
1. It costs nothing to add a stamp and when the rifles first came out, people wouldn't have been a wery so they would fetch a premium.
2. Look at the date of the rifle 1945, the Russians were knocking on Berlin's doors by the time a 1945 dated rifle hit the front lines. For it then to have been captured and sent back to a central processing point, inspected and then re-issued is a very improbable senerio. By that stage every captured weapon would have been turned around on the front.
PerversPépère
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Shawinigan (Quebec)
More probable but also rare are the Finn-captured M-44, mostly during the Karelian Isthmus campaign.
BTW, if you have such a bird and don't like it, I'll be ready to help you ease its suffering...
PP.
BTW, if you have such a bird and don't like it, I'll be ready to help you ease its suffering...
PP.
I to am thinking its a fake ....why stamp marks on it that late in the war by then it was way to late to worry about things like that ..... way I see it though is now I've almost got all the nagant models its time to start on the variations of those models ...hmm what was it last time I heard 260 different varified variations and around that many again not varified.....I was talking to a guy from italy a few hrs ago online and he's said that running into fakes over there is a nomal thing mosin nagants and mauser 98s ...said that you can get the stamps origanal and repro and not only that he says they'll go out of their way to refinish a mauser and restamp all the seriel numbers so they'll match and then they get top euro on it.
I bought a 91 Mosin with KAPT12 or simular under eagle, waffenampt. Some say they were rebuilt 41-43 in Karkov, others say no. DC packs made in Poland, BNZ 98's in Austria, CZ 27's Prague,capture, built, rebuilt, used, the list is very long. So yes I beleive 91's built/rebuilt and stamped in some way by Wehrmacht organisation.
Some day someone will write a book on all foreign equipment used by all sides in that war.
Some day someone will write a book on all foreign equipment used by all sides in that war.
well its been solved ....back in the late 80s early 90s there was a bunch of german marked m44 mosin nagants shiped in and sold by advertizing through the canadaian gunrunner newspaper, a guy down in the states bought one only to find out it was a 1946 m44 with nazi marks and did his home work, they were stamped before being shiped over seas to canada (not sure which com bloc countery)thinking they would sell faster and for a higher price with german marks ...look out for them, they are marked usely with the eagle and swastika stamps stamped twice on the reaciever, the mag, the bolt, and the stock, and a stamp on the sight base, the stamps used are origanl stamp dies but they are very lightly stamped usely tapering off to the side or to the bottom so thier hard to make out...to bad I guess but still a thing of intirest for Mosin Nagant collectors to clear up.
Just reviewed the section in Weaver's "Desperate Measures" dealing with the use of Italian rifles and carbines by the Volkssturm. Of the 100s of thousands of M-C rifles taken over by the Germans in '44, some were marked, many or most were not. If a rifle was marked, ones proof fired had an eagle/swastika stamped on the breech of the barrel, and an eagle with a code for the ordnance depot where the rifle was inspected was stamped on the wood. But marked rifles may well be the exception. Rifles converted to 7.92 had bore diameter stamps, a conversion serial number, the proof mark, and a code for the concern that did the reboring.
All captured small arms were identified and given a model number, the original identification was not used.
All captured small arms were identified and given a model number, the original identification was not used.
