Stag 10 Feeding Issues

[RangerPark]

So I bit the bullet and bought a Stag 10. I was in the market for a SA20 but seeing as they were about the same price I decided to go the Stag route.

After Canada Post was done seemingly walking it across the country I took it to the range and fed it many different types of ammo both from various P-MAGs and XCR mags. VLD bullets would get hung up by hitting just below the chamber and many other pointed type bullets would get damaged on their way in.

Here are some pictures:



Here you can see a reloaded round with Berger 185 gr VLD Hunting bullets. It hits hard and gets stuck just below the chamber. It did the same thing with 155 gr hybrids. I tried varying OALs from 2.700 to 2.825 and they would all hang up like this. Under a full power cycle, they would hit so hard the bullets would get driven into the case, even with a healthy crimp.



Next is some Winchester soft points factory ammo (2.700) and reloads with Sierra 175 gr TMKs (2.825). Although those bullets would chamber they exhibited signs of hitting in the exact same place. The rifle feeds fine with FMJ bullets but that's not what I bought it for.



The Stag is the only AR10 type rifle I have on hand so I took a look at some AR15s I also have. I noticed the AR15s have a breech cone machined in to help feeding and the Stag 10 doesn't.

EDIT, one more photo:


EDIT:
I forgot to mention, brass comes out of the Stag looking rather rough. The top brass was fired in the Stag 10, the bottom one was fired in a finer .308" chamber.

I figured the barrel was missing it's breech cone and emailed my concerns to Arms East. I promptly got a RMA shipping label and I shipped the rifle back the same day. I was then contacted by phone by a different person and was told the following:
- The Stag 10 and other AR10 barrels don't have breech cones like AR15s do.
- Apparently there's nothing wrong with my rifle.
- I will have to keep buying different bullets to reload until I find something that feeds properly.
- The rough looking brass is apparently normal for a chrome lined chamber.
- The RMA shipping label was apparently sent to me by mistake since Stag isn't going to do anything about this.

Unfortunately the person that sent me the RMA was different from the person that told me there was nothing wrong with my rifle. So now my Stag 10 is on a cross country return trip from Alberta to Newfoundland for apparently no reason. So during the next 4 or so weeks that this rifle will be stuck in the mail system I should have some free time to find solutions to those feeding problems.

So for those of you who are reloading for the Stag 10, what bullets have you been using? Have any of you had success with VLD type bullets? If you had the same issues I'm having, were you able to resolve them? Does your Stag 10 or AR10 have a breech cone similar to an AR15? Do your chrome lined chambers also cloud up brass like mine does? What would you recommend I do to solve this problem?

All constructive insights are welcome.

 

[Octogon]

Thats why i sold both Stag 10 i had ,one was first generation second was second generation, both had problems feeding, and went with Colt SA20.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Maybe there is a simple solution???

Jerry

 

[RangerPark]

Maybe there is a simple solution???

Jerry

Thanks for the photos Jerry, I'm definitely considering an aftermarket barrel as I otherwise really like this rifle. My only issue with that option is the Stag 10 barrel will make for a rather expensive tire iron.

Can you venture a guess to the dimensions of the breech cone? If Stag insists their barrels don't come with one I just might have to do some experimenting.

 

[RangerPark]

Thats why i sold both Stag 10 i had ,one was first generation second was second generation, both had problems feeding, and went with Colt SA20.

During our latest AR craze GP Tactical had a SA20 for $1950. I spent a lot of time staring at that checkout button. But what's done is done.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Sold a number in all sorts of chambers from the 243 to the 338 Fed, with a bunch of creedmoors in between. So far, no complaints of feeding and I assume they are going into BCLs and STAGs?????

Accuracy feedback has been positive as well.

There is always a risk of long pointy bullets hanging up when feeding but there are remedies that can help this along. When a breech end is chamfered/coned, the headspace dimensions also needs to be adjusted to suit.... as well as proper sizing for the bolt within the extension.

Out of curiosity, I would single feed and see how well the barrel shoots. If it doesn't meet your expectations, then a barrel swap will be a simple decision vs trying to modify.

Let me know if I can help with a barrel.

Jerry

 

[Sinasta]

Are you talking about feed ramp or the barrel extension?

 

[RangerPark]

Are you talking about feed ramp or the barrel extension?

Neither. The rounds hit the barrel on their way in, just below the chamber, as shown in the first picture. You can see the copper on the feed ramps, they engage the rounds and lift them towards the chamber, just not quite high enough.

I also discussed with AE the possibility that the feed ramps on the barrel extension could out of spec, for instance the gap too large or the ramp not high enough, and I was told this was unlikely.

All that's missing is about .050" for the round tip to clear the chamber's edge.

 

[Sinasta]

Ok see now.

 

[RangerPark]

Bump! Anyone else here experienced similar problems and found a solution?

 

[RangerPark]

Out of curiosity, I would single feed and see how well the barrel shoots. If it doesn't meet your expectations, then a barrel swap will be a simple decision vs trying to modify.

This is what bothers me the most at this point. I fired over 50 rounds in my first session, single loaded anything VLD, and I saw some very promising results. I had a full ladder with 185 VLDs and Varget ready to go but I held back because of the feeding issues. I think this barrel is a shooter but only if it would allow the use of bullets that are known to be accurate.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Decisions.... decisions....

Test the barrel fully and then decide.

Jerry

 

[RangerPark]

Bump! Anyone else with ideas? Looks like I might have been describing this wrong, by breech cone I actually mean feed cone. Curious as to why Stag doesn't have on their barrels when everything else I've seen from IBI, McGowen and Faxon have one.

If someone with a Stag 10 could post a photo of the feed cone area of their stock barrel that would be great.

 

[FoxAlpha]

I’m still at a loss for what you mean by a cone?

I can only presume you’re talking about the feed ramps on the receiver extension but you’ve nixed that already.

I bought a ballistic advantage stainless barrel, I’ll see if I can snap a picture. I’ve had zero feeding issues with mine once the adjustable gas block was sorted out but I’ve only run mostly 168gr and 175gr SMK’s and a box of 185gr Berger GMM, no soft points.

 

[RangerPark]

I’m still at a loss for what you mean by a cone?

Yes I'm sorry I definitely could have been clearer. Here are some photos of what I mean by feed cone. You can see the Stag 10 with no feed cone and a Ruger 556 with a generous feed cone. In the case of the Stag, having the feed cone would allow the VLDs to chamber properly.

 

[FoxAlpha]

Ahhhh okay I gotcha now, new and improved terminology learned everyday. Let me see what mine shows and I’ll get you a picture just for comparisons sake.

 

[FoxAlpha]

While a bit dirty and probably not the best picture, I can definitely see a pretty distinct “feed cone” on my BA barrel

In your pic, it’s hard to tell if there’s no feed cone at all or if it’s more of an angled cut vs the radius on mine.

 

[RangerPark]

While a bit dirty and probably not the best picture, I can definitely see a pretty distinct “feed cone” on my BA barrel

In your pic, it’s hard to tell if there’s no feed cone at all or if it’s more of an angled cut vs the radius on mine.

Thank you for taking the time to take that picture. So far I've seen distinct feed cones in 4 different AR10 barrels: IBI, McGowen, Faxon and now BA. I added to the end of this post the picture of a Faxon barrel sent to me my CTCS.

I can definitely say that the Stag barrel in my Stag 10 doesn't have a feed cone at all. You can see a small chromed radius at the corner of the chamber and that's it. The rounds are hitting the barrel exactly in the area the feed cone would be if it was there. This is why the VLDs get hung up.

Arms East told me the Stag 10 barrel doesn't have a feed cone and to their knowledge most AR10 didn't. I will be contacting them again on Monday to see what they have to say.

Faxon barrel and feed cone:

 

[FoxAlpha]

I would say at the very least try some other factory ammo? Maybe just buy some cheap stuff, 150gr FMJ, 168gr GMM and see how they function. As Jerry mentioned previously it could just be certain bullet contours that you may be SOL in which case I’d say welcome to the world of semi autos.
But if you have that same issue with various manufacturers and bullet contours, I’d be contacting AE and demanding a resolution.

 

[RangerPark]

I would say at the very least try some other factory ammo? Maybe just buy some cheap stuff, 150gr FMJ, 168gr GMM and see how they function. As Jerry mentioned previously it could just be certain bullet contours that you may be SOL in which case I’d say welcome to the world of semi autos.
But if you have that same issue with various manufacturers and bullet contours, I’d be contacting AE and demanding a resolution.

It feeds FMJ fine. If this was a restricted rifle being used at the range only I wouldn't care. But since I will be using this for hunting I want to be able to load accurate hunting bullets. Federal Fusion also feeds fine. Winchester soft points and Sierra TMKs get damaged or deformed tips on their way in. The Bergers having a stiffer tip won't deform and get stuck on the edge.

This is why I wished someone else with a stock Stag 10 barrel would post a picture of the feed cone area. If Stag truly doesn't have feed cones on their barrels there's not much AE can do about my rifle. But if my barrel is in fact missing it's feed cone then I would expect warranty service.

So far I'm being told there's nothing wrong with my rifle. If that's the case then it's buyer beware, a stock Stag 10 won't feed VLD bullets. If I wanted to only shoot cheap ammo I would have bought a cheap rifle. At this price point, the Stag 10 should be able to properly feed with any ammo.