I shot in the Kelowna qualifiers on Thanksgiving weekend. After being trounced by 5 to 10 seconds by guys that are slower than me I need to know: is there a book out there called 'Stage Reading for Dummies' or something along those lines?
Stage Reading For Dummies
- Thread starter hal1955
- Start date
Most top shooters will help teach you to break down courses of fire in their classes. But mostly it come from experience and good practice. You have to know what you can do. Where you can save time. What are your splits at different distances? What is the time to travel "X"? Can you shoot on the move or are you better standing? Can you shoot everything from one spot (only if it's bad course design) or a minimum of spots, or are you better moving to a different location and shooting faster rather than trying difficult shots to avoid moving?
Any stage diagrams? What you did versus the others?
Any stage diagrams? What you did versus the others?
Here's a good example:
http://www.stageexchange.com/stages/nightmare on ipsc st 1.pdf
How would you shoot this? It depends on distances to targets and size of ports but you could:
a) draw and step, shoot T4-T6 right out of the box, run over to T1-T3 then run back to T7-T9 and finish on T10-T13
b) draw and run to T1-T3, come back and shoot T7-T9 through the first port while moving, turn and still moving shoot T4-T6 through second port then finish T10-T13
c) draw and step shoot T4-T5-T6-T8-T9 through the port on the left of box, run over shoot T1-T3 then hit T7 on the way back, reload and finish on T10-T13
d) draw and step to the right shoot T4-T5-T7-T8-T9 throught the right port, run to right and shoot T10-T13 hit T-6 on the way back (it looks pretty open) and finish on T1-T3
This simple stage has several way to shoot depending on how it's set up but you have to look at some of these options depending on what you are comfortable doing.
http://www.stageexchange.com/stages/nightmare on ipsc st 1.pdf
How would you shoot this? It depends on distances to targets and size of ports but you could:
a) draw and step, shoot T4-T6 right out of the box, run over to T1-T3 then run back to T7-T9 and finish on T10-T13
b) draw and run to T1-T3, come back and shoot T7-T9 through the first port while moving, turn and still moving shoot T4-T6 through second port then finish T10-T13
c) draw and step shoot T4-T5-T6-T8-T9 through the port on the left of box, run over shoot T1-T3 then hit T7 on the way back, reload and finish on T10-T13
d) draw and step to the right shoot T4-T5-T7-T8-T9 throught the right port, run to right and shoot T10-T13 hit T-6 on the way back (it looks pretty open) and finish on T1-T3
This simple stage has several way to shoot depending on how it's set up but you have to look at some of these options depending on what you are comfortable doing.
Hal...
This is by no means a "beginners" book...but Brian Enos' - "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" is probably something to consider. Alot of the literature out there is very good at teaching you how to practice "Steve Andersons book comes to mind) but the Enos book goes beyond that (well beyond)
Warning...there are some pretty abstract concepts in there... but still a great read
This is by no means a "beginners" book...but Brian Enos' - "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals" is probably something to consider. Alot of the literature out there is very good at teaching you how to practice "Steve Andersons book comes to mind) but the Enos book goes beyond that (well beyond)
Warning...there are some pretty abstract concepts in there... but still a great read
Actually Brian forums are a better place to start if looking for general info or on stage breakdowns. Brians book has very little on stage doping.
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=idx
Stage forum:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showforum=33
Hi,
Well, the very obvious question is how do you define slower/faster than you?
In general, I find that tooooooooooooooooo many IPSC people equate speed with how fast you can squeeze the trigger and how fast you physically cause your body to move when you run at full speed. Sure, those are important, but they won't have a huge effect - there is only so quickly you can shoot the gun before your accuracy goes all to hell, and while running at full, "ninja-on-fire" speed is great, it almost always causes you to lose several seconds when it comes time to actually stop for the next shot(s)
If you watch the some of the really good shooters, you'll see that they are, actually, quite slow, in appearance... But you'll also notice that there is no wasted time/movement/etc anywhere in there... the stage time saving comes from smooth movement of the gun between targets (i.e. not "bang-bang..... bang-bang...... bang-bang...." but rather "bang.bang.bang.bang.etc"), and the smoothness with which they glide in and out of shooting positions. stage reading, sure, that's obviously important, but honestly, I find that very few stages, percentage wise, offer any kind of a challenge re 'the best way of doing it," most are pretty obvious. Some offer some alternatives, and that's where knowing your strenghts/weaknesses comes in, so you max the former and min the latter, if you have the choice.
In my opinion, for the vast majority of D, C, and B class shooters out there, smoothing out the shooting cadance and smoothing out the setups and takeoffs will generate the greatest improvement, stage point wise. Note that these are things which you get for free! They do not compromise accuracy! You simply cut out (some) dead time, and don't worry about squeezing/slapping the trigger faster. Remember, each shot is an AIMED shot, throwing bullets in the general direction of the target doesn't work most of the time, and when it works, it's mostly by accident, not by design... You'll move up in ranking and score the most by improving the non-shooting aspect of your shooting competition
Nicely put Omen.
When you really add it up, the true time you spend on a stage actually shooting the gun vs. the time you spend transitioning either your body through the stage space or the gun from target to target is actually miniscule. While some effort expended in trying to learn more about stage doping may in fact be beneficial at some point, that effort probably won't ever pay off until you can move smoothly through a course of fire knowing your splits and transition times at the sub-conscious level. When you can do that, much of what we think of as stage doping will become pretty obvious, in terms of the best way to shoot a stage for your current skill set.
When you really add it up, the true time you spend on a stage actually shooting the gun vs. the time you spend transitioning either your body through the stage space or the gun from target to target is actually miniscule. While some effort expended in trying to learn more about stage doping may in fact be beneficial at some point, that effort probably won't ever pay off until you can move smoothly through a course of fire knowing your splits and transition times at the sub-conscious level. When you can do that, much of what we think of as stage doping will become pretty obvious, in terms of the best way to shoot a stage for your current skill set.
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economy of motion. I think I might've mentioned that on Saturday or Sunday Hal. how do you gain the most, with the least amount of effort or risk. do you finish with an empty gun, or take one more position and reload to finish with 3 extra rounds "just in case".
also, you need to be able to see the stage and how you'll do it in your head before you can actually do it for real. Visualazation. A classic example of not doing that was me on stage 2 at Kelowna with the bobbers and clamshells. I completely forgot to step forward and engage the bobbers, as a result I had to come back, and in doing so, left a target. 4 mikes, one FTE. had I properly visualized the stage, that wouldn't have happened, but I was busy joking around with my nephew and such. even still I managed a decent time. but that was pure luck by then.
also, you need to be able to see the stage and how you'll do it in your head before you can actually do it for real. Visualazation. A classic example of not doing that was me on stage 2 at Kelowna with the bobbers and clamshells. I completely forgot to step forward and engage the bobbers, as a result I had to come back, and in doing so, left a target. 4 mikes, one FTE. had I properly visualized the stage, that wouldn't have happened, but I was busy joking around with my nephew and such. even still I managed a decent time. but that was pure luck by then.
Omen has got it - fast is slow , smooth is fast .
I found Saul Kirsh's books very informative and easy to comprehend . Money well spent to me anyway .
Brian's book is good ( very deep ) but to me it was like watching Pink Floyd's the wall straight - you just kinda go " huhhh???" untill you reread it 3 times .
I found Saul Kirsh's books very informative and easy to comprehend . Money well spent to me anyway .
Brian's book is good ( very deep ) but to me it was like watching Pink Floyd's the wall straight - you just kinda go " huhhh???" untill you reread it 3 times .
This link http://www.ipsc-ont.org/articles.htm will get you to some articles written with info on shooting stages.
And it's free.
Otherwise get the Plaxco book " Shooting from within" avaialble from Josko at www.doubletapsports.com
It can take you to Master class if you can do everything in the book.
Mike
And it's free.
Otherwise get the Plaxco book " Shooting from within" avaialble from Josko at www.doubletapsports.com
It can take you to Master class if you can do everything in the book.
Mike
Saul Kirsch new DVD's...Master Class I & II plus Mastering the Mental Game..also his 3 GM DVD is great....I would recommend all 4 as I have seen them personally. (and I do have them in stock)
