This is what you see when firing 45colt as the cartridge does not expand
enough annd gases blow back into the cylender and such,you might have
cylender cone problem.
Ammo alone will not cause this problem.
Bob
Stainless revolver turning black...how much is normal?
- Thread starter sparq
- Start date
This is what you see when firing 45colt as the cartridge does not expand
enough annd gases blow back into the cylender and such,you might have
cylender cone problem.
Ammo alone will not cause this problem.
Bob
Powder will have a major effect on the amount of residue produced. Some get real smokey and dirty when loaded light. Add to that a light load not causing the case to seal the chamber of the cylinder and you end up with a very dirty gun. One reason why I prefer Clays for light loads in .38spl. Powder burns very clean leaving my stainless Ruger looking like a stainlerss gun after 200 rounds at a match vs a gun looking like it just had a bad bluing job.
Take Care
Bob
Bobbyjack, it's not that the .45Colt doesn't expand. It's that they don't expand far enough for long enough because of the light loads that are used by cowboy action shooters. A buddy of mine that loads for the local cowboy action matches is loading something like 5 to 5.5 gns of Tightgroup behind 200gn LRNFP bullets. That isn't even up to the minimum load given on the Hodgdon loading data web site. So likely the charge is only generating around 6000 to 6500 psi compared to the 9300psi he would get if loading up to their minimum of 6.7 gns of the same powder.
But if the loads are up to around max at 13000psi then you could expect to see a good seal and not much blowback at all.
As for a clean powder I just wish that Winchester would release the powder used in their WinClean ammo. That stuff seems to shoot out a fair amount of unburned powder. But it shoots well and consistently and the cases and inside of the gun are spotless after any amount. The cases acually look clean and bright as though they were new. I WANT THAT POWDER ! ! ! ! !
But if the loads are up to around max at 13000psi then you could expect to see a good seal and not much blowback at all.
As for a clean powder I just wish that Winchester would release the powder used in their WinClean ammo. That stuff seems to shoot out a fair amount of unburned powder. But it shoots well and consistently and the cases and inside of the gun are spotless after any amount. The cases acually look clean and bright as though they were new. I WANT THAT POWDER ! ! ! ! !
- Location
- Mission, B.C.
That is a suspicious amount of fouling for sure. Something's not quite right there.
As to cleaning, any soft cloth should be enough by itself if you keep one on the shooting bench and wipe the gun down every once in a while. If you can find some Ballistol, it's good for softening powder fouling and it's non-toxic. (See hickock45's YouTube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiWNZgtu2uw.) Use it on the cloth on the shooting bench during your shooting session. It seems to be hard to find on dealers' shelves, although there is a Canadian distributor who will send it out.
Stuart
As to cleaning, any soft cloth should be enough by itself if you keep one on the shooting bench and wipe the gun down every once in a while. If you can find some Ballistol, it's good for softening powder fouling and it's non-toxic. (See hickock45's YouTube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiWNZgtu2uw.) Use it on the cloth on the shooting bench during your shooting session. It seems to be hard to find on dealers' shelves, although there is a Canadian distributor who will send it out.
Stuart
That's the plan. I went out today and picked up two boxes of WinClean .38 JSP to try out next time I shoot (maybe tomorrow). Guess I'll shoot some of that and some jacketed Winchester .357 and see how it goes before I move to the Wolf stuff.
handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
Wow, perhaps uncrimped .38's? I reload both .38 and .357 almost exclusively with TITEGROUP and 100 rounds leaves a haze of soot on the front face of the cylinder only. That's real chimney you've got there!
The soot usually builds up from the front of the cylinder just from the cylinder gap and works it's way back. The excessive soot on the back of the cylinder screams a lack of seal. Caused most likely by pop gun loadings, lack of good crimp, or too hard of brass. If the cylinder is too large it should blow the brass out and still seal.
Well I've got more for you gents to chew on now. Unfortunately I didn't have any "normal" factory .38 left, but I tested today with Winclean .38, Wolf .38, Winchester and Wolf .357. To me it LOOKS like the Wolf .38 is the only problem.
Before shooting:
After 50 rounds WinClean .38 - hardly noticeable:
After only 25 rounds of Wolf .38, getting diiiirty:
After this I fired 25 rounds of Wolf .357 and it didn't look like it was getting much worse. The Wolf .357 was also much less smoky than the Wolf .38
After that, 25 more Wolf .38:
And the smoke I was dealing with, apologies for cellphone video quality. Top is Wolf .38, bottom is Winchester .357:
Some of the Wolf .38 has a knurled cannelure or something halfway down the case. This was inconsistent - almost every round from the first box had it, maybe 50/50 on the second box. And not every band is at the same height on the case:
Before shooting:
After 50 rounds WinClean .38 - hardly noticeable:
After only 25 rounds of Wolf .38, getting diiiirty:
After this I fired 25 rounds of Wolf .357 and it didn't look like it was getting much worse. The Wolf .357 was also much less smoky than the Wolf .38
After that, 25 more Wolf .38:
And the smoke I was dealing with, apologies for cellphone video quality. Top is Wolf .38, bottom is Winchester .357:
Some of the Wolf .38 has a knurled cannelure or something halfway down the case. This was inconsistent - almost every round from the first box had it, maybe 50/50 on the second box. And not every band is at the same height on the case:
- Location
- Mission, B.C.
And the smoke I was dealing with, apologies for cellphone video quality. Top is Wolf .38, bottom is Winchester .357:
Bloody hell. Do you smell sulphur? Looks like Wolf is using BP for the .38 Special loads!
Stuart
- Location
- Mission, B.C.
Does it smell like firecrackers?
I bet you built up quite a ring towards the front of the cylinder after firing the .38 Spec. stuff, too, as there's about 1/10" space before the shoulder where the .357 Mag. cartridge mouth sits.
I'd be inclined to send those pics to Wolf Reloading and ask what they used.
As to the dotted line on some cases, it looks like they are using different brands of brass. (No harm in that.) What do the headstamps say?
At least you'll end up with some brass for when you begin reloading.
Stuart
Well now you know for sure it is the ammo and not the gun. I have never saw 38 ammo with that much smoke. If I did not know better I would think you were shooting black powder.
Are the wolf reloads a lot louder when fired then the other ammo?
You are probably just going to have to shoot it all, clean your gun and not buy anymore of this ammo.
Graydog
Are the wolf reloads a lot louder when fired then the other ammo?
You are probably just going to have to shoot it all, clean your gun and not buy anymore of this ammo.
Graydog
Is the report a crack or a "Futooom"? that .38 looks like BP to me. OP are you getting a greenish black soot on the cloth or just black, like charcoal when you clean up?
- Location
- Mission, B.C.
Maybe it's the ammo, but if I were you I'd take it immediately to a gunsmith and have it checked out. This could be the result of the forcing cone being out of alignment. I had a brand new S&W 617 once that shot dirty like that and the S&W warranty gunsmith quickly identified the problem. He fixed it, and thereafter the gun shot clean (and much more accurately.)
