stainless steel vs blued

well if you hunt on the westcoast. blued rifles are just a pain in the ass. often times we get about in skiffs on the saltchuck and a bit of spray and salt air plus rain and mud like we get around here will drive you around the bend chasing rust on a blued rifle if you are hunting multiple days.

the best hunting is when it's pissing rain so stainless is the way to go around here. but if blued is all you got don't let that stop you. you'll just have more work, guns are tools for putting projectiles in things if it wears out buy a new one. i don't think it's healthy to get all sentimental and obsess over material objects like rifles.

Well said. I remember one time I took my Enfield camping, oiled it up and left it in the tent. In the morning it had rust in every spot that my hands touched it. The fingerprint type of rust that you can practically wipe off, but that's not the point. I actually had to steel wool it and re-oil it. I then started to worry about the metal under the forend, and you know how annoying that is to access on a sporterized Enfield, not something you want to do in the woods.

This wasn't even rain, this was humidity from me sleeping in my tent with a gun.
 
On the 416SS, makes sense... and thanks for the info, greatly appreciated. I've been around and shot firearms since I was quite young but have only recently taken a real interest, and just purchased my first one.

I am used to working with weldable grades, the austenitic and duplex grades, and got a bit tunnel visioned on them. Didn't even think to consider the martensitic grades, as is 416SS, which after some digging I can now see would be the ideal due to their machinability and hardenability through heat treatments.

AND IT MOST LIKEY HAS VERY LOW IMPACT TEMERATURE .. I would guess nothing more than -20. I'm glad you point this out.

On the Ruger topic, I'm thinking by toughness you mean hardness / wear resistance? In my area of work toughness is generally used to describe a materials ability to impact.

I can't even begin to guess what Ruger uses for material. My uneducated responce would be a martensitic grade SS with sulphur, and the secret to their "claim" maybe in the heat treatment. Such as quench and temper or nitriting, To remove the sulphur could have an impact on cost in achieving high tolerances.

Regarding SS vs non SS for "toughness as you put it" is getting pretty deep into heat treatments and I have no real knowledge of the two. I'm thinking it would be on the one who wants to spend the most though... in this day and age they can do some amazing things.

Again thanks for your comment .... I learned something today ... and pulled my head out of my ass.
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I think ruger was basing their preference on SS over non SS by shear testing lugs on bolts from each type of steel. Obviously it took more force to shear lugs off the bolt body of SS. Would this not be a measure of toughness or a combo of hardness and toughness? I was led to believe hardness had a linear relationship with brittleness, which would probably not be good for lugs/bolt bodies. I have forged down some SS round stock to very thin sections and was amazed how it did not fatigue and crack like mild and even some tool steels. Metal is an interesting subject...
 
Metal is an interesting subject...

Metal is interesting, for example, which of the people in this jap metal band are girls:

versailles_221.jpg


Hint.. none of them! haha psych!
 
Just get some acid free microcrystalline conservator's wax from Lee Valley and some Boesheild. Apply wax, then Boeshield. Breakfree CLP in the action and you're good to go.
 

I think ruger was basing their preference on SS over non SS by shear testing lugs on bolts from each type of steel. Obviously it took more force to shear lugs off the bolt body of SS. Would this not be a measure of toughness or a combo of hardness and toughness? I was led to believe hardness had a linear relationship with brittleness, which would probably not be good for lugs/bolt bodies. I have forged down some SS round stock to very thin sections and was amazed how it did not fatigue and crack like mild and even some tool steels. Metal is an interesting subject...[/QUOTE]

In the pure sense of if, toughness (or fracture toughness) and shear strength are two different things and are described with different units of measure.

I can understand that toughness as general term can be, and are, interpretted differently. That is why I wonder what Ruger means by tougher. I'm thinking they mean one is better than the other (tougher), so yes it could be the combination of shear, toughness, and hardness. It is the property (or properties) they are measure or comparing to determine the superior product I would like to know.

As to hardness and brittleness being a linear relationship, I wouldn't be able to provide an expert opinion. My thoughts, within a group of metals it maybe but don't think that would be a good general statement.

Having to much hardness can be bad, especially throughout the entire thickness. Surface hardening on the other hand has some major benefits.

You have me going .. best I stop at this.

Cheers .. and yes .. its incredible what they can do with handful elements these days.
 
I think ruger was basing their preference on SS over non SS by shear testing lugs on bolts from each type of steel. Obviously it took more force to shear lugs off the bolt body of SS. Would this not be a measure of toughness or a combo of hardness and toughness? I was led to believe hardness had a linear relationship with brittleness, which would probably not be good for lugs/bolt bodies. I have forged down some SS round stock to very thin sections and was amazed how it did not fatigue and crack like mild and even some tool steels. Metal is an interesting subject...

In the pure sense of if, toughness (or fracture toughness) and shear strength are two different things and are described with different units of measure.

I can understand that toughness as general term can be, and are, interpretted differently. That is why I wonder what Ruger means by tougher. I'm thinking they mean one is better than the other (tougher), so yes it could be the combination of shear, toughness, and hardness. It is the property (or properties) they are measure or comparing to determine the superior product I would like to know.

As to hardness and brittleness being a linear relationship, I wouldn't be able to provide an expert opinion. My thoughts, within a group of metals it maybe but don't think that would be a good general statement.

Having to much hardness can be bad, especially throughout the entire thickness. Surface hardening on the other hand has some major benefits.

You have me going .. best I stop at this.

Cheers .. and yes .. its incredible what they can do with handful elements these days.[/QUOTE]

Hey, just stolen from a google search! Toughness is actually a term like hardeness etc. On a side note I have heard there have been some barells made from non sulfur SS using specialized equipment. If these were ever produced, cost effective, they should last longer than chromemoly perhaps.

Toughness

The ability of a metal to deform plastically and to absorb energy in the process before fracture is termed toughness. The emphasis of this definition should be placed on the ability to absorb energy before fracture. Recall that ductility is a measure of how much something deforms plastically before fracture, but just because a material is ductile does not make it tough. The key to toughness is a good combination of strength and ductility. A material with high strength and high ductility will have more toughness than a material with low strength and high ductility. Therefore, one way to measure toughness is by calculating the area under the stress strain curve from a tensile test. This value is simply called “material toughness” and it has units of energy per volume. Material toughness equates to a slow absorption of energy by the material.



There are several variables that have a profound influence on the toughness of a material. These variables are:

Strain rate (rate of loading)
Temperature
Notch effect
 
Therefore, one way to measure toughness is by calculating the area under the stress strain curve from a tensile test. This value is simply called “material toughness” and it has units of energy per volume. Material toughness equates to a slow absorption of energy by the material.



There are several variables that have a profound influence on the toughness of a material. These variables are:

Strain rate (rate of loading)
Temperature
Notch effect

The most common method of determining impact values are by "Charpy", or "I-zod" testing.

Never heard of using tensile testing for this purpose ... interesting ... I question if the values obtained by this method would be accepted in certain industries. Simply for the fact that when charpy testing is required, most likely tensile testing is also required.
 
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