Starr revolver repairs

[mooncoon]

A while back I decided I had to have a Starr revolver and being frugal, bought one in almost working condition. The hammer would not #### when the replacement cylinder lock was in place (single action Starr). After endless cogitating, I decided one of the problems was that the hand started moving the cylinder before the lock was out of its notch. On a Colt or a Remington I think that would be an easy fix; shorten the hand a bit to allow the cylinder lock to disengage first. The hand on my gun appears to be original but repaired and so I decided to make a new one about .050" shorter. Seemed easy at the time :>( The hand is sort of paddle shaped and the part which engages the cylinder is just a tiny little finger so I figured I would make mine wider and therefore stronger. Did not work at all. After great cursing and swearing and cogitating, I did what I should have done in the first place. cut a ole in a piece of paper and drew lines on it representing the recess in the frame of the gun as well as a line illustrating the orientation when one cylinder is in position to fire.
The whole problem with making a working hand revolves around the fact that the hand is almost centered on the cylinder and the little finger which engages the ratchet of the cylinder is barely engaged at all when the hammer is down and you are preparing to recock the gun and rotate a fresh cylinder to the top. If the finger is too wide it digs into ridges in the cylinder and these ridges are almost at the center of the cylinder and the hand jams. Filing the finger narrower has it almost working and hopefully in the near future the gun will be complete and in shooting order again.

Starrs are strange guns; I don't think I would describe them as having the smooth rounded curves of a Colt or Remington and many of the guns features seem to be to make it easier to manufacture. Somewhat puzzlying why they did not adopt a cylinder pin which goes through the cylinder supported front and back. You have to be a little careful when opening the frame up, that the cylinder does not fall out; it is held in only by a tapered point in the front and the ratchet assembly in a recess in the back

cheers mooncoon

 

[tokguy]

I feel your pain. I traded for a Belgian revolver that needed timing and a DA sear. The hand wasn't easy to fit;easy enough to build, but to fit...wow!
Must have had it in and out of the revolver a dozen times before it indexed properly.
Then the cylinder stop needed building up and shaping.
Next some tempering.
I never tackled the DA sear and the firing pin on the hammer still strikes light, but this spring...I'll get it.
I'd admired that Starr you acquired for quite some time( it was on the EE for an extended period correct?). I really like the lines on them. Best of luck getting it working.
If you throw up your hands in frustration let me know on the sly... I'll take it off your hands, our secret LOL.
Stay safe
Tokguy

 

[mooncoon]

I don't think this one was ever on the EE. Eventually I will get it working. Once I get the hand working, I can hopefully get the cylinder stop working. In reflecting on the principle revolvers of the US civil war, it strikes me as the two most popular were the Colt and the Remington. Both I think would be a little more complex to manufacture because of the curves but the only pieces at risk of breaking ore being lost (hand and its spring, mainspring and barrel key on the Colt and cylinder pin on both) are relatively easy to make and to replace. The other two less popular ones, the Savage and the Starr both seem to me to have significant flaws in their design. The Savage has a toggle link which is tied to its hand (cylinder moves back and forward) and if the finger lever is not all the way forward, the toggles will move under recoil and the hand will bend or break. The finger lever (which rotates the cylinder) also requires enormously powerful hands to work. The Starr single action seems more fool proof but the hand seems like a bugger to make or repair and fit. Also the cylinder can easily be dropped when the frame is opened (top strap unscrews and the barrel drops down). Probably explains why only the Colt and the Remington survived to be morphed into cartridge guns

cheers mooncoon

 

[tokguy]

I really do enjoy the challenge of fixing the older wheelguns.
But it makes one wonder, if Colt already had a proven design...how on earth did they manage to put out the 1889 Navy?
Who ever was responsible for that and the Lightning / Thunderer designs was asleep at the Helm. A definite step backwards on cylinder lockup and timing from the SAA.
Sure DA is a step forward but the timing and lockup mess of the 1877 & 1889 revolvers? Not forward thinking. A bit more R & D was in order on those designs.
Stay at it. Good luck.

 

[Remac]

Try" partsforantiqueguns.com "... He makes all parts for Starr. Single and double action. Starrs also take a .464 bullet.

 

[drm3m]

A general comment regarding Starr revolvers;

IMHO, the 58 Starr double action was a problematic design which was improved upon with the 63 single action revolver as you suggested.

The 58 Remington is head and shoulders better than the Starr DA.....more accurate...and definitely a more simple design.

I have a rather nice Starr DA which we used to shoot back in the 60s together with a 58 Remington.

Little doubt in my mind.... back in 1861-65 I would have preferred to have the Remington.

Years ago John St Amour of Marstar used to have a Starr DA that had been converted for a .46 cal cartridge...a Belgium conversion for the Crimean War I think.

Good luck with your project.

David

I can't even imagine a single action Starr revolver in this condition. (Unfortunately not mine)

 

[mooncoon]

they obviously lack a deep layer of patina which brings one down to a price that a frugal (cheap) person like I can afford :>) :>)

I cut my replacement hand through the middle and shortened it by another .050 to .070", added a spring to keep it engaged and wonder of wonders, it works. I get to compare it on Monday with a complete and working gun belonging to a friend

cheers mooncoon