I have an old AyA where the cheek wood along the tang has begun to pull away from the tang. Not cracked yet but the wood is able to be pushed tight then it springs back out leaving a gap. Could steam be used to bend it back? If so how is this done? Just steam for so long and clamp it tight and let air dry?
Steam bending
- Thread starter brybenn
- Start date
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Not really certain that I follow your issue. Brownell's (I think) (or perhaps Midway??) has a video with old British gunsmith guy - Jack Rowe (?) who shows old school British way of bending wrist of shotgun stock to create off set - was done with cotton rag around wrist - soaked in linseed oil, then oil heated with flame. There is a magic temp within the wood where the lignin goes like plastic putty - can be re-shaped - when cooled below magic temp, the lignin becomes rigid again - is all a few degrees below ignition point of the wood. Steam does not get neat hot enough to do that permanent change in the wood structure, although hot water and steam often used to bend, or allow wood, to be bent. As per the references that I read, the steam technique is not a permanent alteration of the wood, like the hot linseed oil is...
Last edited:
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Back when Bobby Hull was showing all us young hockey players how to shoot 100 mph shots with a curved blade stick...those curved sticks were not readily available in local markets so we all bought straight blades & curved them ourselves.
Just hot water from a tap will heat a blade up to curve nicely but it takes a few minutes of running hot water and the guys waiting for hot shower water complained so much we invested in a hand held propane bottle....much faster heat-up but i wouldn't recommend the torch in your case, it was very easy to "scorch" the wood...didn't hurt the wood so much, just an unsightly blemish you wouldn't want on a gunstock.
The hot water will work for you, just don't try to hurry the process. If I was doing what you describe, I would find something that just fits in the tang pocket back end (bolt or piece of shaft) and tape in place, have a screw operated c-clamp handy, then heat the side of the stock you wish to bend back in. after heating for a few minutes (long enough for heat to generate through the entire stock side equally) and then pinch the ends of the stock together. The hot piece should flex more than the cold side and I would tighten until the hot side is ever so slightly taken past (there will be a slight spring back after cooling) where you want it to finish up at, not let it air cool and set for a couple hours before releasing the c-clamp
Just hot water from a tap will heat a blade up to curve nicely but it takes a few minutes of running hot water and the guys waiting for hot shower water complained so much we invested in a hand held propane bottle....much faster heat-up but i wouldn't recommend the torch in your case, it was very easy to "scorch" the wood...didn't hurt the wood so much, just an unsightly blemish you wouldn't want on a gunstock.
The hot water will work for you, just don't try to hurry the process. If I was doing what you describe, I would find something that just fits in the tang pocket back end (bolt or piece of shaft) and tape in place, have a screw operated c-clamp handy, then heat the side of the stock you wish to bend back in. after heating for a few minutes (long enough for heat to generate through the entire stock side equally) and then pinch the ends of the stock together. The hot piece should flex more than the cold side and I would tighten until the hot side is ever so slightly taken past (there will be a slight spring back after cooling) where you want it to finish up at, not let it air cool and set for a couple hours before releasing the c-clamp
depends where... pictures would help .. along the tang in the wrist, above the lock plate (AyA.. this is a SxS shotgun? not familiar) - but quite likely not
Depends on the type of wood and grain as well, burl and/or figured woods with chaotic grains and dense woods .. not so much. It's also very difficult to apply steam in a small area like that and it will also ruin any finish AND probably throw something else out.
I would not attempt it myself.
Sounds like it is checking - a little part is trying to depart the rest of the stock - probably have to figure out where the stress is, relieve it and glue. Though can't say without some pics.
I am going to side with pjs in thinking the stock is cracked. If you can push the wood in and it springs back there must be a gap somewhere which is allowing the wood to move. If you remove the stock and cannot see the crack, you might want to epoxy glue in a thin piece of walnut (assuming that is what the stock is made of) and then re inlet the tang
cheers mooncoon
cheers mooncoon
I built a steam box , way different than hot water, may work, you can just use a kettle, . it will screw up your finish on the stock .
A little steam will not do it.
I would really look for a crack. Good luck.
The esay way in the back country was a 1/4" bolt throu it, But AYA is too good to do that to.
If you steam wood , and clamp, with steel, don't have steel next to wet wood, and it takes at least 24 hrs to set.
A little steam will not do it.
I would really look for a crack. Good luck.
The esay way in the back country was a 1/4" bolt throu it, But AYA is too good to do that to.
If you steam wood , and clamp, with steel, don't have steel next to wet wood, and it takes at least 24 hrs to set.
Bad pic i know but my phone camera doesnt focus well
There is no crack but the right side cheek can be pushed in and pops back out. A very thin line of light can be seen between the wood and tang. Id like to eliminate that play without having to put a pin or screw thru the head of the stock.
It fits snuggly at the back of the tang
Attachments
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
Not sure I agree with the "must have a crack" opinions as it is quite common for stock wood to warp under differing storage/use conditions. Millions of guns get the "free float" barrel treatment for just that reason.
From the photo I would sure try the hot water and c-clamp method but I would be sure to place a spacer that exactly fits the gap between the stock panels right where the bend starts so the bend you want to introduce is where you want it, not past the bend so that it pinches the gap to tight for the tang after the bend.
From the photo I would sure try the hot water and c-clamp method but I would be sure to place a spacer that exactly fits the gap between the stock panels right where the bend starts so the bend you want to introduce is where you want it, not past the bend so that it pinches the gap to tight for the tang after the bend.
Thanks for the picture, it looks like it's lost it's mechanical connection..... Is there some material missing from the end where it looks like it should be "dovetail" mated with the steel?
Maybe you can build that up a bit with some tinted epoxy and let the interface between the end of the loose side and steel lock it into place?
Otherwise you could remove a bit of wood from the stock's inlet and allow the entire stock to shift forward the small amount needed to firmly reconnect the right side of the stock with the steel.
Maybe you can build that up a bit with some tinted epoxy and let the interface between the end of the loose side and steel lock it into place?
Otherwise you could remove a bit of wood from the stock's inlet and allow the entire stock to shift forward the small amount needed to firmly reconnect the right side of the stock with the steel.
The wood has shrunk over the years... away from the angled part of the action that should hold the wood tight... correctly glass bedding the wood to the action with a clamp holding the inletting tight until the bedding has cured should correct it.
That was my first thought but i had the fear of somehow gluing the stock to the metal. I had asked about glass bedding the area from a rifle shooter who i know knows glass bedding. Looking into it i again had the fear of screwing up and locking the action into the stock. Hence i thought of trying the steaming first. I know its not a high end firearm but it fits me perfectly and it patterns great
The aya cosmos was built in the late 60s so its got some age and as stated who knows how it was stored before i got it.
I may try glass bedding various things to practise before i start. The internals are extremely close to the wood
I may try glass bedding various things to practise before i start. The internals are extremely close to the wood
- Location
- Western Manitoba
To maybe put your mind at ease?? - When working with epoxy, you put a release agent on the metal - usually very thin stuff like a wax - so the epoxy will not stick to the coated metal - so you apply it even to places that you don't think epoxy will go - because it does go there! Then likely in your instance - will want to undercut or make mechanic fastening places for the epoxy to grab the wood - instead of relying solely on the "stickiness" or "gluing" function - which is very powerful!! That way, when the wood is clamped in place, the coated metal acts like a mould and perfectly shapes the epoxy to a very snug fit with the metal - the mechanical locks that you created make sure that the epoxy has solidly bonded to the wood.
If the wood has a finish - like a varnish - epoxy is going to stick very well - to the varnish!! - not necessarily to the wood - want good wood surface if you want epoxy to stick to the wood! No oils, etc. soaked into the wood - all that makes the epoxy not want to grab very well.
FYI - epoxy can stick and bond to surfaces - that is what the release agent prevents. It can also curl or run around a corner of stuff coated in release agent - and create a mechanical lock when it sets - the pieces are not glued together, but they are mechanically locked together - can be avoided by filling those gaps or crevices - like with plasticine, modeling clay, etc. - and then painting right over top of the filler with the release agent. Removing parts that do not need to be there for the epoxy job is a big help, as well.
Most of the epoxies that I have worked with take like 6 or 10 hours to set up - so is actually lots of time to get things positioned correctly - biggest PITA for me is then to leave it alone and do not fuss with it while it is setting up. Might take some practice or thinking ahead - I would think in your case that you do not want epoxy oozing out onto the wood surface to mar the finish?
The more I thought about your issue, is maybe not likely a project to take on, if it is your first time to try to work with epoxy on a firearm?? You likely do not want bubbles in your epoxy mix. You likely will want to peel or gouge away some good wood to make the epoxy at least 1/8" thick to be strong - will stick the same if it is .002" thick, but that thin layer does not have a lot of strength, by itself. Sometimes epoxy is used as a "filler" to fill in a gap between metal and wood - in your case, I suspect that you will want to make the epoxy act as an "extension" added on to the wood - so more "structural" consideration at play, I think??
Last edited:
I'd vote for this approach. I Would NOT stuff Epoxy into the gap, but 'de-oiling' should be the first step if you decide to attack it yourself. Then, consider steam and clamp to re-instate the correct gap or maybe slightly tighter so it 'clings' to the metal by itself. Then, before the 'final ' assembly I would suggest to soak in some 'modern' Poly-Linseed oil to hopefully prevent the 'next time'. If there are no 'real' cracks, I would avoid using epoxy or CA.
Less is More . . .
That right there, is probably a good advice as can be got.
You really do need to take the stock off, and inspect it carefully anyways, to settle the question of whether it has cracked. Which does seem likely, to me.
Seems to me, the wood stands proud of the gun action by a fair bit, and has taken some damage from the opening lever too. There is going to be some refinishing involved.
If you ever hoped you could fix it without having to completely take it apart, you should pretty much forget that. Even if you are bedding it, the best and easiest thing to do is to remove all the parts you don't want bedding material to drool onto.
Ive had the stock off. There is no crack. It will be refinished once i get it fixed. It shoots fine it just bothers me knowing i can push the wood in.
I like the idea of taking a 1/32" off and basically moving the stock forward. All id need to do is keep the angles at the same plane and remove a bit at the back of the tang and the rear of the trigger guard. That im confident i can do. I have until turkey season to get it refinished
I like the idea of taking a 1/32" off and basically moving the stock forward. All id need to do is keep the angles at the same plane and remove a bit at the back of the tang and the rear of the trigger guard. That im confident i can do. I have until turkey season to get it refinished
