How hard will it be to change over to steel shot for trap and skeet and sporting? The reason I ask is because I wouldn't mind trying it someday, but mostly because I can foresee the day when we may have to. Lead contamination is one argument against what we are doing, rifle or shotgun really, and I think there will be more pressure on us to clean it up in the future. The use of lead shot can certainly be used as a political argument against what we are doing too. The other thing that occurs to me is that people hunt with steel shot. So, it makes some sense to have them shoot clays with it too.
Steel Shot for Clays
- Thread starter BCFred
- Start date
Doesn't make any sense to use steel shot for anything, it wounds game, is expensive, hard on barrels, can't be used in some guns, just a very bad thing all round. I use it for waterfowl now because it is the only legal thing affordable, but doesn't work near as good as the old lead loads.
Silver Willow has created a dug out and filled it with water and installed a 5 stand on top of the pond.
The range owner says steel only. He has some for sale but price is high. I have never tried steel out of my target guns and am interested in this topic.
The range owner says steel only. He has some for sale but price is high. I have never tried steel out of my target guns and am interested in this topic.All this may be true ben. It's depressing, but also the reason I asked the question. I don't have any experience with steel shot as I quit hunting waterfowl around the time of the lead shot ban for hunting over water, mostly due to lack of opportunity at the time, and I only load lead shot now. (BTW I was in favour of the ban as, right or wrong, I did feel there was a problem with ducks picking the shot up.). What has opened the issue for me now is a recent a mailing from BCWF describing a petition to ban lead shot for recreational shooting sports. I think there is a good chance that this is a glimpse into the future. Unless I'm mistaken there is a ban on lead hunting bullets already in California and the mailing says the US military is going green. We put a lot of lead downrange in shotgun shooting and as far as I know reclaiming the lead isn't done all that much (just my impression, could be wrong). We are vulnerable to attack on the issue due to toxicity issues and so on and all the right won't be on our side in the debate that will surely come. Maybe the most vulnerable is sporting clays as a great deal of lead is spread over a larger, more diverse area than say trap and skeet. It will probably be harder to clean up after, and it is more difficult to protect trees from damage too. In fact sometimes I have wondered how the trees could have moved fast enough to get in front of my shot
and it is clear from looking at them that I'm not the first by any means. The easiest to clean up after is probably rifle shooting as the shooting generally goes into a berm. So, whether we in the shooting sports like it or not, we may have to face the change and it might be better to be proactive about it. At the very least we might be able to recover some of the cost from reclaimed shot or maybe we can create an option to lead for ourselves.
BCFred. you might want to ask at your shooting club what they think of steel shot on their property.
I shoot at the VCGC in Richmond and there are stories of club and others who come to shoot at meat shoots and some serious sporting clays events where they are sneaking in steel shot ( iirc it is not allowed to be used there, club rule).While it has not been a major issue, but from what I hear it creates havoc for the guys doing the lead shot reclamation.
Your club may have more info to share than what our collective opinions are on this topic.
Smoke them Clays,
Rob
I shoot at the VCGC in Richmond and there are stories of club and others who come to shoot at meat shoots and some serious sporting clays events where they are sneaking in steel shot ( iirc it is not allowed to be used there, club rule).While it has not been a major issue, but from what I hear it creates havoc for the guys doing the lead shot reclamation.
Your club may have more info to share than what our collective opinions are on this topic.
Smoke them Clays,
Rob
BCFred, all the reading I have done, and the soil samples taken from an old trap range here, indicate that lead isn't really a problem laying on the land. It basically oxides on the surface, and that is the end of it. It doesn't seem to leach, or go anywhere.
Might be different in water, but I suspect we have more waterfowl dying from being crippled today with steel then we had dying from lead poisoning before.
Might be different in water, but I suspect we have more waterfowl dying from being crippled today with steel then we had dying from lead poisoning before.
A few years ago I won 4 boxes of Kent steel one ounce target loads at a game dinner. I patterned them and shot a couple rounds of trap and a round and a half of skeet. Not surprisingly steel patterned very tight. I was smoking 16 yard targets with an IC choke. Steel is probably too tight for skeet based on my testing with a cylinder choke. The Kent rounds were a little smokier than comparable lead ammo. Recoil was the same as any one ounce load. The barrel was a little dirtier than usual.
I also took a apart a couple of the loads. The only noticeable difference was the thickness of the wad.
If I had to shoot steel I could live with it but I will NOT voluntarily shoot steel shot for targets and will oppose suggestions that we do so as a pre-emptive measure to appease the antis or the greenies.
I also took a apart a couple of the loads. The only noticeable difference was the thickness of the wad.
If I had to shoot steel I could live with it but I will NOT voluntarily shoot steel shot for targets and will oppose suggestions that we do so as a pre-emptive measure to appease the antis or the greenies.
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M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
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- East St. Paul, mb
The only thig keeping lead shot alive is clays. Would suck to have to use steel for the aforementioned...
Steel results in some serious limitations with target sports.
I unfortunately have more experience with it than I care to (a few years back).
First off, we could only find target loads in 12ga and 20ga. We were not able to source anything in 28ga, or .410 (not to say it doesn't exist).
Secondly, the smallest size of shot we could find was #7.
Third, the price was significantly higher than lead shot ammo.
It was easy to see that the elimination of lead shot would result in a quick demise to competitive skeet (of the NSSA variety).
#7 shot presents a number of problems, and the lack of subgauge ammo availability. In addition, I don't know anyone who was willing to put steel shot through sub-gauge tubes.
As expected, steel shot patterned much tighter than lead. That notwithstanding, the performance was quite satisfactory (presumably from the tighter patterns and the larger shot) in the 12ga and 20ga ammo tested.
On a casual basis this can work, but for those serious about shooting, I don't believe this is an acceptable option.
Brad.
I unfortunately have more experience with it than I care to (a few years back).
First off, we could only find target loads in 12ga and 20ga. We were not able to source anything in 28ga, or .410 (not to say it doesn't exist).
Secondly, the smallest size of shot we could find was #7.
Third, the price was significantly higher than lead shot ammo.
It was easy to see that the elimination of lead shot would result in a quick demise to competitive skeet (of the NSSA variety).
#7 shot presents a number of problems, and the lack of subgauge ammo availability. In addition, I don't know anyone who was willing to put steel shot through sub-gauge tubes.
As expected, steel shot patterned much tighter than lead. That notwithstanding, the performance was quite satisfactory (presumably from the tighter patterns and the larger shot) in the 12ga and 20ga ammo tested.
On a casual basis this can work, but for those serious about shooting, I don't believe this is an acceptable option.
Brad.
It's a relief to know that one could live with steel shot CB. It's also a big relief to hear there might not be toxicity issues (Scar270) and I don't want steel shot in my lead either (Flhtcui). The latter wouldn't be a problem if we couldn't shoot anything else, of course. (I'm still wondering how much reclamation is going on, however, and how likely it is that the shot would be picked up and contaminate other shot. Maybe we would have to run a magnet over the shot or something if we push the issue to the wall. I just don't know.)
I not a big fan of 'appeasement' CB and I'm not trying to do that. I do believe, however, in trying to be prepared and trying to be as proactive as possible in some circumstances. There is something elevating about taking charge of one's own fate. (In fact, looking at the history of the shooting sports here as I understand it, I wonder if we are looking at the result of fighting amongst ourselves too much and not being proactive enough. $0.02) It sounds like you would resist change as much as you can on this issue CB. I'm OK with that, but you could lose, so could we all. I just hope you wouldn't quit shooting.
Another thing that occurs to me is that I was required from a young age to leave country in the same condition I found it in when I passed through. So, I believe we have a responsibility to clean up our own messes. I have been worried about the issue with lead and with the damage I see in the environment. On the other hand, I've been encouraged by the fact that people here clean up the wads and debris at their clubs and so on. It makes me feel that we all have the same values despite the fact we might differ on what approach to take.
So subguages are a problem as are tubes. Expense is another problem. But I don't know what problems come up with #7 shot in skeet Brad. Are there rule changes that would have to be contemplated that would overcome some of this? I certainly grant it might all be a 'pita' or at least require a finely honed sense of adventure
.So subguages are a problem as are tubes. Expense is another problem. But I don't know what problems come up with #7 shot in skeet Brad. Are there rule changes that would have to be contemplated that would overcome some of this? I certainly grant it might all be a 'pita' or at least require a finely honed sense of adventure
7.5 shot is typically the largest shot allowed in trap and skeet (not sure about sporting).
Let me restate though, the loss of the use of lead would be the death of the game. It would be a bigger hit than whole CFC licensing and registration BS that we deal with already. It wouldn't just be a PITA, it would be the end.
Look for some clubs that have had lead bans, and find out how they are making out. I've had a glimpse at this prospect, and it was not pretty.
Brad.
Yes, I was aware of the rule concerning size of shot. Good question about sporting clays. I just thought it would be the same as trap and skeet. I still don't know what the problem is with using 7 1/2 in skeet. I know that #9 is preferred by many, including me, and others around here use #8, but I tried 7/8 oz of 7 1/2 just to see what happened and it shot OK. (Blame Covey Ridge
. He put me up to it.) In fact, I thought that one might have to use heavier loads and bigger shot for handicap trap if using steel. I didn't think it would knock out skeet. Is it loss of the sub guages that is of primary concern?
The Bird Conservation Alliance (BCA), the proponents of this move to ban lead ammunition, has among its membership Ducks Unlimited.
Ducks Unlimited sponsors a lot of trap shooting, so I have to wonder how they justify playing both sides of the fence.
Ducks Unlimited sponsors a lot of trap shooting, so I have to wonder how they justify playing both sides of the fence.
Ducks Unlimited has played both sides of the fence on many issues. The most notable being the long gun registry. On that issue they chose to sit on the fence and remain silent and not offend certain groups of tree hugging, granola muching, bleeding hearts that had $$invested$$. That is called sleeping with the enemy. The once mighty potent voice for Hunters was seduced and castrated. The $$money$$ caused this once noble organization to forget its original purpose.
On another note I recall a report of a sporting shoot in one of these forurms where ducks and kent did have a steel sporting shoot.
BTW, I am with Fred on this issue. I do not wish to concede anything and as much as I love my lead shot, we would be foolish to dig in and not have an plan B or alternative. A lead shot ban at certain clubs would be certain death as long as lead is still an alternative elsewhere. Should lead be banned all out, the shooting sports including skeet will probably survive if those involved have the forthought to have an alernate plan.
On another note I recall a report of a sporting shoot in one of these forurms where ducks and kent did have a steel sporting shoot.
BTW, I am with Fred on this issue. I do not wish to concede anything and as much as I love my lead shot, we would be foolish to dig in and not have an plan B or alternative. A lead shot ban at certain clubs would be certain death as long as lead is still an alternative elsewhere. Should lead be banned all out, the shooting sports including skeet will probably survive if those involved have the forthought to have an alernate plan.
Unless they come up with a cheap alternative to lead shot, price will be really hard on the shooting sports.
It sucks to have to pay twice as much for steel shot for hunting, however thats a flat or so a year. If we have to start significantly increasing the cost of ammo that we shoot a flat of every week or two, thats going to hurt the sport.
Edit to add:
The anti's know that full well, and that is why the uproar about lead shot. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns, and entirely to do with shutting down the shooting sports any way they can. If it was really about the environment, there are a billion thing more destructive then lead shot laying in a field.
It sucks to have to pay twice as much for steel shot for hunting, however thats a flat or so a year. If we have to start significantly increasing the cost of ammo that we shoot a flat of every week or two, thats going to hurt the sport.
Edit to add:
The anti's know that full well, and that is why the uproar about lead shot. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns, and entirely to do with shutting down the shooting sports any way they can. If it was really about the environment, there are a billion thing more destructive then lead shot laying in a field.
It may be because it is only a flat or so a year that the cost is higher? It is in the best interest of the ammo companies to support the clay sports. Steel is not that expensive that when manufactured in larger quanities the expense should not be that much higher.
I think that at first steel target loads may come down to the price of premium target loads and later cheaper loads introduced when the ammo companies compete for your $$dollar$$. At this point I would like to hedge my bet and look into an alternative to betting all or nothing on lead. Anyway, I would rather pay twice as much and reduce my shooting to half than not get to shoot because no one tried to develope a reasonable alternative.
