Steel Sucks!

Jericho

Jericho

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Steel shot blows.

2004, I peppered a teal duck with 5 shots of 12ga, 3 inch no2 steel and still it survived. I had to kill it by hand.

This year, 22 divers and we got 4. Both using no2 12ga 3 inch loads. Please let us Newfoundlanders use lead!

I invite anyone to come out and take water samples or pond bottom samples for lead content. My father and my grandfather have said out of all the ducks they've shot here, they've never cleaned lead shot out of their gizzards. I believe that ducks only ingest mass amounts of lead shot in shallow marshes when you have hunters regularly shooting over. (Ontario/Que comes to mind)

I am confident lead contamination is not a problem in NL and would much rather legally use lead to effectively kill ducks instead of cripple half of what I shoot.

Anyone else agree?
 
I agree that STEEL BLOWS!

This is the first year since the lead ban that I put any real effort into duck hunting,and am quite disapointed in steel shot.From what I have seen about 80% of the ducks downed are rarely dead when they hit the water.I would be inclined to believe that the number of cripples left from steel shot far outweighs the effects of lead poisoning on waterfowl.Call me crazy!:runaway:
 
You need to limit your range and only take incoming or side flight shots. I use No.4 2/34" 12ga. loads that do 1500fps. Never had a problem under the right restrictions.
I am just giving some advice. I too miss my lead BB for pass-shooting Canada's. I haven't had any issues with steel on the ducks though. Then again I've never shot sea-ducks...
 
I agree with you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that crippling mortality due to ducks shot and lost by steel is WAY more than the loss that was caused by lead poisoning.

But on PEI I did shoot many ducks with shot in their crops. Here in AB I've shot none with shot in their crops. Lead shot only NEEDS to be banned on hard or sand bottomed lakes as birds aren't going to pick up the shot in the loon#### we normally hunt in. CWS in their infinite wisdom though doesn't want to have to try to regulate that part of it so applied a "one size fits all" regulation to it (sound familiar).

Two tips on steel: 1) Go smaller and shoot closer. I use 6 steel almost all of the early season. It helps to guarantee CNS hits and/or wing breaks that take the bird down. Later I go to 3.5 inch 4's for the extra range with the same pattern density.

2) Always watch the flock after shooting. Mortally hit birds will often fly as if unhurt before locking up a few hundred yards away and crash landing Particularly with larger shot. The pellets take out the lungs/heart/liver but don't break bones so the bird has to bleed out like an arrowed deer and that can take a few seconds which means a few hundred yards of flying time.

When I had my dad out a few weeks ago, I took a shot at a flock of geese with 3.5 inch BB. Nothing flinched and the flock continued on for 200 yards until one goose peeled out of it and crash landed into the marsh about 400 yards away. We put the boat in and went down to where he had landed and there he was stone cold dead. I've seen the same thing happen hundreds of times with myself and other hunters shooting the big stuff.

Try going smaller and closer and see what happens. Or switch to the expensive stuff (Hevishot etc). 10 shots of $1 shells to kill a goose is still more expensive than 3 shots of $3 shells.
 
use 1500-1550 fps loads, and keep ranges close..real close. Ive chased many geese across stubble fields..steel does suck
 
My experience...

When the steel law came into effect, I followed everyone else and went with BB's and #2's for ducks... I found LOTS of the birds were wounded and "missed"... They seemed to fly right through the loose pattern offered by shells containing large pellets, ie BB's and #2's... If they were hit, it was usually by one or two pellets and at most, three or four...

Then the FAST steel with 1550 feet/sec velocity came out... I bought several boxes of #4... And I have NEVER LOOKED BACK!!! Ducks that are within range, say 30 to 35 yards, DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steel is approximately 30% lighter than lead. This can be offset by increasing the velocity of the steel pellets... The bummer is that the lighter steel pellets don't carry the same WHOMPH down range as lead...

So, my advice is to try some #4 steel shells GOING 1550 feet per second OR FASTER... With steel, it's SPEED THAT KILLS!!!

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

Cheers
Jay
 
I agree, steel sucks. Try getting geese low enough when you're hunting alone to drop them with steel. I've gone through several boxes with no birds.

They need to realize that the big lead hype came out of the States, and the whole thing was based on one or two places that had been hunted on for hundreds of years. But instead of using their brains.......
 
lone-wolf said:
I've never met anyone happy with the switch.
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Not happy about the switch but I can't say that wounded bird numbers are any higher than they were with lead. Use a couple shot sizes larger than you did with lead, shoot inside thirty yards and of course, hit the birds in the head/chest and there's no reason for it not to be effective. If you are seeing loads of wounded birds, I'd suggest some more time practicing or wait till the birds get within range. No trouble filling our limits out here with steel!

Check your patterns too. Steel reacts far different to chokes than lead does. If you are shooting out of a full choke gun it's likely not that surprising that you are crippling a lot of birds. You must pattern your gun with steel.
 
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5 shots for 1 duck? you are either a horrible shot, you are using dummy rounds, or you are trying to shoot them from 75 yards.

ive downed 25-30 ducks and about 10 geese in the last few years with steel shot and havent even come close to losing a bird. but then again the farthest ill shoot is about 40 yards and i tried 7 or 8 different loads before i found the right load for my gun.

buy a few different loads, pattern your gun, and buy the best steel you can afford. if you insist on sky busting, use hevi shot;)
 
We tried Black Cloud this year for the first time and I can tell you that's all I'll be shooting from now on. It kills the birds. 2 out of 5 of us a were using it a couple weeks ago, and we limited out way earlier then the guys who were just sing regular steel shells. They had lots of wounded birds and I can't recall any for us.
http://www.blackcloudammo.com/
 
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canadian hunter312 said:
5 shots for 1 duck? you are either a horrible shot, you are using dummy rounds, or you are trying to shoot them from 75 yards.

ive downed 25-30 ducks and about 10 geese in the last few years with steel shot and havent even come close to losing a bird. but then again the farthest ill shoot is about 40 yards and i tried 7 or 8 different loads before i found the right load for my gun.

buy a few different loads, pattern your gun, and buy the best steel you can afford. if you insist on sky busting, use hevi shot;)
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No, it wasn't a far shot. Steel is garbage, period. I wasn't using dummy rounds, I've won my share of marksmanship trophies and medals including some with the CF and the shot was about 20m, not 75 yards.

todbartell said:
use 1500-1550 fps loads, and keep ranges close..real close. Ive chased many geese across stubble fields..steel does suck
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I thought 20 meters was pretty close! I've tried no 4, 2 and BB, the high velocity loads. It's OKAY, but I still found a hell of a lot more wounded ducks with steel than with lead. I even have BB loads downstairs, not sure if Win or Federal, but they've got high velocity marked on the box. 1550 fps I believe, and they kick like a mule. I still find steel junk.

I do however like the suggestion of banning lead shot only over areas that the shot can't sink in. I mean, if the ducks are actually dying from lead poison in these areas, then I guess we've no choice. However in areas that lead shot has ZERO effect on ducks, I think we should be allowed to use it.
 
canadian hunter312 said:
5 shots for 1 duck? you are either a horrible shot, you are using dummy rounds, or you are trying to shoot them from 75 yards.

ive downed 25-30 ducks and about 10 geese in the last few years with steel shot and havent even come close to losing a bird. but then again the farthest ill shoot is about 40 yards and i tried 7 or 8 different loads before i found the right load for my gun.

buy a few different loads, pattern your gun, and buy the best steel you can afford. if you insist on sky busting, use hevi shot;)
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A WHOLE 30 ducks!!! Wow you're an expert.:jerkit:

Fry,

I've had a few 5-8 shell teal in my career and was one of the first hunters in Canada forced to use steel due to the area I hunted. Now, even when I hunt with larger shot (the Crappy tire runs out of small stuff) I keep a handfull of small steel or Hevi to water swat cripples. Pattern density is key, velocity helps. Lead would be better.

Not that I would know anything. I never get any birds:D.
 
I just picked up a box of xpert #7 steel for swatting cripples. 5 box a box from lebaron. Figured that #7 shot will have a pretty dense pattern up close.

hunting012.jpg


The guy on the left took a load of 3" BB, flew about 50 yards, fell, took another load of #2 to the face. Still had to wring it's neck in 2 directions. One of the most gruesome kill ever. When I gutted it, the heart was mushed, but it still managed to fly.

The other dropped on the shot, but still had to be swatted cuz it kept diving.
 
There is no comparison between lead and steel shot. It is very hard to kill geese with steel shot as compared to lead shot. In my own observations, where we used to get about 15 % of our geese that were not dead when they hit the ground when shot with lead, we now have probably 60% of the geese that are still alive when they hit the ground when shot with steel. I guess the eggheads that make up the rules think that this is acceptable as long as they can say they are saving the environment and preventing lead poisoning in a few birds. [ rant off.]

Gord
 
Anglinfool said:
We tried Black Cloud this year for the first time and I can tell you that's all I'll be shooting from now on. It kills the birds. 2 out of 5 of us a were using it a couple weeks ago, and we limited out way earlier then the guys who were just sing regular steel shells. They had lots of wounded birds and I can't recall any for us.
http://www.blackcloudammo.com/
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Blackcloud

its the best ever. It's improved my shooting 100% I usually just pull the box out and the birds fall from the sky. My cripple count is zero, my calling has improved, the birds chirp more and my wife got hotter.

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Inside 30 yards it's no better than anything else. Been shooting it a bit lately but I'm not convinced its worth the extra hype or money.
 
Well my thoughts are this:

I've played with different loads, different sizes and different brands. The absolute best luck I have is with Kent Fasteel in #4 for jump shooting ducks off ponds. Anything requiring farther shots, pass shooting, or geese and I prefer BB for everything, period. And if I don't know what to expect, the BB shot is what comes along. The fact is, yes I may be sending BB's around a bird for the first shot or two, but I know if just one of those connects, it's coming down. A good example was a gadwall last Fall. She came in from behind me and fast. It saw me and pulled up hard. It started it's climb dead away from me. That means no error in leading it. I held on, and just above and let the first two shots go. Nothing happened. The third shot connected, and all I found was one pellet entered it's south end. But it was enough, and it was also the farthest away when it hit.

On the contrary, as I wrote about earlier an experiance I had this year. #2 steel shot out of my 2 3/4" double was just splashing on the suface of birds, causing lost feathers and nothing else.

Of course they were cheapy Dry-lok loads, but I think it shows somthing at least to me. While #2 is still a good size pellet, these loads are light in weight. I also belive their slower than a good load. I know had I been shooting BB shot in the same load, I may have done better. I also know if I had been using my regular waterfowl loads in my regular waterfowl gun I would have shot my limit in only a few minutes that night.

A good steel load will do the job, but it will never, ever come close to the ability lead has to kill. Simple as that. I would like to try the modern 'better than lead' shells on the market, but their too damn expensive for me. $30 for 10 rounds is bordering on stupidity. I did however buy a box of Federal's new Black Cloud in BB shot. So far I have only fired off 6 rounds and I can't say if it kills better, but my gun does not like them. I shot them out of my Remington pump gun, and unfortunatly they would have a tendancy to jam up in the chamber. The high brass is either soft or somthing, but I can just open the pump and start to bring it back and it sticks. It only happens with these, so I must have a bad lot, or my gun is just not destined to shoot them. I'll try another box and see what happens, but I was really looking foward to trying them.
 
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