Steel Sucks!

sealhunter said:
Black Cloud !!!! Black Cloud!!!
Click to expand...

I find it odd that so many guys are hyping black cloud. Its not only on here but to just guys I talk to aswell. We phoned a store to order in a case of remington hd and he tried telling me how he was a waterfowler aswell and that black cloud is all he shoots now and its the best. I can understand if it works for a guy but to tell me its better then hevi-shot or rem hd, which is more dense then lead I cant seem to understand.

I have shot a couple boxes of black cloud, pretty much shot a couple boxes of every kind and theres nothing I cant kill with winchester steel experts 3" or 3 1/2". And I didnt even notice any difference in how black cloud kill them. If anything I thought they were not as good as other brands offering products in the same price range.

I found it funny though when the guy behind the counter tried to explain to me what the pellets inside look like and why they work better, I finally said sorry, yea I know they look like saturn in a way with the ring and its like 60/40 normal pellets to "special ones".

Owell if its works for you thats great, I guess opinions are like elbows everybodies got 2.

I find that on all the other waterfowl hunting forums that more and more guys are starting to think this new wad and pellets are just a bit marketting ploy.
 
Last edited:
Lefty #### said:
You are right Seal the IMO was at the top of another post in this thread, on that comment I was in error.

As for the comment about fast tracking, well lots of guys are trying this that and the other thing for loads without patterning it first. Kinda bassackwards IMO.
You have to admitt that those who have less issue with steel, seem to have done a lot of ground work before taking to the field, does that not suggest a definite pattern to this whole issue?

You gotta quite being so adversarial you know. Just because a fellow does'nt agree with you or see you tilt on an issue is'nt cause to drop a F-Bomb.
Click to expand...


I'm not being adverserial and that was not the F bomb, tht the was fick, instead of frig. Who the frig are you is what it would have read, but i didn't want to post something so hasty. I actully go ahead and use the #### word and let the progarm censor take care of it as you can see here.

I'm not saying there are no examples of what you are saying....

There are lots of guys who don't pattern, use different chokes, loads etc....
you're right about them.

I am one of many who does do all this but still have an issue with steel.
It might not change anything, and It doesn't change that i have to shoot steel today, but I have many issues with steel, how it was introduced and how it was applied to Canada

It's just a discussion, an i am well aware that nothing will change this week, but maybe someday..

I appologize if I got off on wrong foot with you :)
 
Crazy_Farmer said:
I find it odd that so many guys are hyping black cloud. Its not only on here but to just guys I talk to aswell. We phoned a store to order in a case of remington hd and he tried telling me how he was a waterfowler aswell and that black cloud is all he shoots now and its the best. I can understand if it works for a guy but to tell me its better then hevi-shot or rem hd, which is more dense then lead I cant seem to understand.
I have shot a couple boxes of black cloud, pretty much shot a couple boxes of every kind and theres nothing I cant kill with winchester steel experts 3" or 3 1/2". And I didnt even notice any difference in how black cloud kill them. .
Click to expand...

I cannot use win Experts eiither. After trying many brands of shells over the years that are steel shot, the black cloud impressed me the most.
It is not hype on my part if you read back through the thread, it was actual performance. That said, it was #2 's we used, ...
Maybe it was just a good day, time will tell. but I was very very pleased with them.
 
Lefty #### said:
You gotta quite being so adversarial you know. Just because a fellow does'nt agree with you or see you tilt on an issue is'nt cause to drop a F-Bomb.
Click to expand...
F-Bomb? Oh no! :rolleyes:

Lefty #### said:
As for the comment about fast tracking, well lots of guys are trying this that and the other thing for loads without patterning it first. Kinda bassackwards IMO.
Click to expand...
How do you know those of us who dislike steel didn't pattern our shotguns for it... and still prefer a denser shot?

Lefty #### said:
You have to admitt that those who have less issue with steel, seem to have done a lot of ground work before taking to the field, does that not suggest a definite pattern to this whole issue?
Click to expand...

No one's saying you can't kill with steel, but your top load of steel will never be able to outperform your top load of lead or anything denser, period.
 
I tried Back Cloud today,and have to say it's better steel,but still not lead.
I got a line on some bulk bismuth to reload.Looking forward to it!
 
Wow, I am busy for a couple of days and this thread goes sideways.

To address a couple of points made earlier:

1. Someone hypothesized that if lead was really an issue, why are birds not continuing to die from ingested shot? Well, they are - in BC around Abbotsford somewhere, Swans die every couple of years from ingesting old lead shot that is suspended in the mud and muck on the bottom of a shallow lake, even though lead has been banned for almost a decade.

2. The problem with lead shot is not only an issue with waterfowl, but with raptors that feed on dead and sick birds that have ingested or been shot with lead. Many raptors have a very low tolerance for lead in their system and often die from ingesting small amounts of lead (keep an eye on this when it comes to shooting gophers).

3. IMO and experience, "learning to shoot steel" is one of the major issues with steel. For YEARS I had a horrible time killing ducks and geese with steel (1400 fps +) and watched many lightly hit birds fly to unrecoverable areas. Through constant coaching (being yelled at by my hunting buddy) I learned to lead birds less, a lot less, and started consistently hammering birds.

4. Shot size - I have not tried #6 steel, but trust Sjemac when he says that they work. For me, the art of decoying ducks eludes me and I often end up taking shots at the far edge of steels effective range, therefore I prefer to use #2's on ducks. For geese, well I have tried #2's and #1's, but still prefer BB's. BTW this is all in 2 3/4" 12 guage.

I am with Sheephunter on this one; we are stuck with steel so we might as well get used to, and proficient with, using it.

As for losing birds, all I can suggest is to get a dog.

Why wouldn't you have a dog?
 
I'm relatively close to where all the swans are dieing from lead posioning. Though the majority of them are in whatcom county on the usa side. They still arent sure where they are getting it from but most think its from years of using lead in the fields, then every year the fields are getting turned up and plowed so it keeps exposing the lead under the ground. Though thats just one theory.

I have only run into a single trumpeter goose who just swam by our decoys all day long in a slough, looked sick, possibe it had lead poisoning. But the growing numbers of swans here are so high its crazy, same with the snow geese. Last two seasons in our own fields most days there'd be atleast 100-200 swans in it with the canadas, compared to a few years ago where we'd see maybe 20 all season. And then theres fields in chilliwack and sumas where the whole fields white full of swans. Numbers are up I believe but the lead problems arent seeming to go away.
 
Pudelpointer said:
Wow, I am busy for a couple of days and this thread goes sideways.

To address a couple of points made earlier:

1. Someone hypothesized that if lead was really an issue, why are birds not continuing to die from ingested shot? Well, they are - in BC around Abbotsford somewhere, Swans die every couple of years from ingesting old lead shot that is suspended in the mud and muck on the bottom of a shallow lake, even though lead has been banned for almost a decade.

2. The problem with lead shot is not only an issue with waterfowl, but with raptors that feed on dead and sick birds that have ingested or been shot with lead. Many raptors have a very low tolerance for lead in their system and often die from ingesting small amounts of lead (keep an eye on this when it comes to shooting gophers).

3. IMO and experience, "learning to shoot steel" is one of the major issues with steel. For YEARS I had a horrible time killing ducks and geese with steel (1400 fps +) and watched many lightly hit birds fly to unrecoverable areas. Through constant coaching (being yelled at by my hunting buddy) I learned to lead birds less, a lot less, and started consistently hammering birds.

4. Shot size - I have not tried #6 steel, but trust Sjemac when he says that they work. For me, the art of decoying ducks eludes me and I often end up taking shots at the far edge of steels effective range, therefore I prefer to use #2's on ducks. For geese, well I have tried #2's and #1's, but still prefer BB's. BTW this is all in 2 3/4" 12 guage.

I am with Sheephunter on this one; we are stuck with steel so we might as well get used to, and proficient with, using it.

As for losing birds, all I can suggest is to get a dog.

Why wouldn't you have a dog?
Click to expand...

Well, BC, Ontario or Quebec shouldn't dictate laws for the entire country.

I'm wondering... have there been any studies confirming that the digestion of rusty steel shot is/isn't life threatening to waterfowl?
 
Fry said:
Well, BC, Ontario or Quebec shouldn't dictate laws for the entire country.

I'm wondering... have there been any studies confirming that the digestion of rusty steel shot is/isn't life threatening to waterfowl?
Click to expand...

I agree with your first comment on principle. As for the steel shot digestion idea, I am not sure but will look it up. There is nothing "toxic" about iron/steel shot being ingested, but I guess there could be the possibility that a bird might be unable to pass a steel shot through its system. Sounds like a research project to me.

If I find anything interesting I will post it.

Ian
 
CV32 said:
What is a ballistic metal?
Click to expand...

Metal elements and alloys which are used in warfare, be it for armament, ordinance, etc. Copper,lead, brass, tungsten, etc... and yes steel!

IMO steel shot in regard to waterfowling is not a ballistic metal. Gone are the grand days of waterfowling when 1 1/4 oz. of chilled sixes would drop a mallard stone dead at 50 yards. Shot lead for 31 years and the change to steel was painfull. Have not enjoyed the sport since.:( Sadly to date steel shot is the only "affordable" substitute for lead.

Steel is here to stay though and an all out ban on lead shot for all aspects of shotgunning is on the horizon.
 
DSCF0812.jpg

These were the ones I mentioned that I
shot with my 20 gauge Rizzini ( F.A.I.R) with 2 3/4" federal premium steel, 3/4oz #4's, moving about 1475F.P.S.
mod and imp/mod chokes.
Steel works for me, but I call them inside 20 as I stated.
First shots out of this gun keeled a duck and a Canada for a double.
Cat
 
Last edited:
Well i posted this pic already this was last sat. hunt using 3.5 winchester high vel. steel 1625fps #2 shot in my Biakal MP 153 it killed better than any steel I've tried so far and it took high geese to I tried the high vel BB steel as well but got more cripples than with the #2 steel I think the reason is is that there is less holes in the pattern with the #2 and = more hits on the bird the extra velocity broke wings legs etc. a couple came down from so high that the meat was damaged. and I haven't done that since lead.
IMGP3187.jpg
 
Well I was out goose hunting yesterday morning. Myself & four hunters had 25 geese in about 1 1/2 hours of good hunting. We were all shooting steel, I was the only one shooting Black Cloud. I did notice 1 cripple get away, & one goose was still alive when it hit the ground & needed another shot. Out of curiosity, I shook each of my geese to see if any pellets fell out. Never heard any pellets fall out :eek:. I took this short video before the camera battery died :mad:.
http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/...ction=view&current=Octmorninggoosehunt012.flv
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom