Steel Sucks!
- Thread starter Jericho
- Start date
- Location
- Back in the Peace Country
No point to try and work with me cause I don't know what happens. I shoot a goose, manage to get him, and if I don't give him a real whirling... when I get home, I can shake him and have shot fall everywhere. Yet the only places I can find penetration are around the head and neck and and some on the body, but not pass throughs.
I'm going out tomorrow morning and will post some pics, maybe you can get a better handle on it than me, but that's what happens...
Regardless of if you are shooting lead shot or steel shot,hunting waterfowl or big game you owe it to the animals you hunt to know your weapon. Whether that means sighting in your rifle or patterning your shotgun, knowing how your gun shoots is the difference between an inhumane and a humane kill in most instances. The type of ammunition you shoot is a secondary consideration. For better or worse lead is gone and today's waterfowler needs to adapt to steel,for some that might mean relearning many years of shooting practices. It might suck but that's reality.
Wow, someone who actually gets it.
Amazing.
Well said my friend, there will be a pint of your favorite ale available to you, if and when we ever meet.
Second round is on me!
And if you can't adapt, pony up the bucks for high density stuff. Like I've said, a killing hit with a $3 shell is better than 3 misses and/or a wounded bird with $1 shells.
The switch from lead to steel for many was akin to forcing golfers to switch from golf balls to ping pong balls. You can still play round of golf with a ping pong ball but you can't do the same things you did with a golf ball. You've got to adjust your technique.
Some people can't do that.
Yeah, adapting to steel is rocket science? Not so.
It still sucks, regardless of what you say. As for complaining about it, you've no right to tell me to put up when I know full well you're opposed to current firearms laws etc. Call off your hypocrisy and maybe you might have some credibility.
What makes you think sealhunter is lying? Why would he lie? Why would I lie? These are discussion forums. USUALLY, we try to stay on topic. If we could do that, it would benefit everyone as a whole.
If you've nothing to contribute to our lead vs steel debate other than (I know all my firearms better than you), please don't contribute anything at all.
It still sucks, regardless of what you say. As for complaining about it, you've no right to tell me to put up when I know full well you're opposed to current firearms laws etc. Call off your hypocrisy and maybe you might have some credibility.
What makes you think sealhunter is lying? Why would he lie? Why would I lie? These are discussion forums. USUALLY, we try to stay on topic. If we could do that, it would benefit everyone as a whole.
If you've nothing to contribute to our lead vs steel debate other than (I know all my firearms better than you), please don't contribute anything at all.
IMO,
There are larger and better fights to fight than the lead shot ban.
Yes it is largely a politically motivated ban, but one must understand even the good ol' US of A had a lead shot ban in place years before Canada.
Although it grates on many to have to make changes, perhaps a collective effort to ensure that in the future we can still hunt with our Browning Auto 5 or Remington 11-87, should be a far greater concern.
Think about it, dispersing resources and efforts to mitigate only a small part of what will be our undoing someday, is exactly what those who wish to take away all aspects of our persuits and passions are hoping for.
Certainly steel cant hold a candle to lead, but come on, the argument is small potatoes compared to talk of semi auto and handgun bans.
Deal with it for now, and adapt, there will be a better time and place to fight this one, there are much bigger fights we have to win first.
Cant you see what is happening here, we are fighting amungst ourselves, and loosing focus of the big picture.
Just what the anti's want.
There are larger and better fights to fight than the lead shot ban.
Yes it is largely a politically motivated ban, but one must understand even the good ol' US of A had a lead shot ban in place years before Canada.
Although it grates on many to have to make changes, perhaps a collective effort to ensure that in the future we can still hunt with our Browning Auto 5 or Remington 11-87, should be a far greater concern.
Think about it, dispersing resources and efforts to mitigate only a small part of what will be our undoing someday, is exactly what those who wish to take away all aspects of our persuits and passions are hoping for.
Certainly steel cant hold a candle to lead, but come on, the argument is small potatoes compared to talk of semi auto and handgun bans.
Deal with it for now, and adapt, there will be a better time and place to fight this one, there are much bigger fights we have to win first.
Cant you see what is happening here, we are fighting amungst ourselves, and loosing focus of the big picture.
Just what the anti's want.
Yeah but we're still ALLOWED to talk about lead vs. steel right? Just because we're focused on one big issue doesn't mean we can look at smaller ones too.
No Sunday hunting USED to be a "fact of life" in Alberta too. That changed.
If nothing else, discussing the situation will promote greater awareness of the Non-toxic alternatives out there.
No Sunday hunting USED to be a "fact of life" in Alberta too. That changed.
If nothing else, discussing the situation will promote greater awareness of the Non-toxic alternatives out there.
Hey discussions are always good.
Perhaps some who are less knowledeable on the subject have learnt a thing or two.
Interesting to see that for the most part those with issues with steel, seem to try and take a fast track approach to their hunting, while those who seem to adapt and research, practice, and evaluate things have less of an issue with it.
There is a bit of a pattern developing here.
Interesting to say the least.
But screaming for political action and so forth is where my last post is directed.
Who said Seal was lying? I just offered up a more plausible explaination for a situation he encountered. I find it impossible to believe that pellets can hang in the feathers on the impact side as he described but certainly believe they could hang on the far side after full penetration. I'm open to be proven wrong but never once did I suggest Seal was lying, just that he was reading a situation wrong. Maybe try taking issue with things I actually say and quit inventing things to serve you ever faltering ramblings...it's getting pathetic!
From what I remember of previous debates with Seal is that he doesn't need anyone coming running to his aid like he's a helpless child.....he's quite an apt debater from whom I've learned several things! I just think he's mistaken with his conclusion in this case.
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I'll back up Seal on the shot hanging in feathers thing. I've seen it quite a bit on geese in particular -- including ones shot at under 20 yards. I solved it by a) going down in shot size and ensuring I had the pattern density for a CNS hit on close geese. b) using the high density non-tox on hunts where the shots may be longer.
I don't recall the exact year steel came into law but I was one of the first groups of hunters in Canada forced to make the switch. I was young then and essentially learned to wing shoot with steel. Then when Bismuth came out, I made the switch so that I could use my grandfather's old semi. What a difference!!! I swore I'd never shoot steel again and for several years didn't.
Then I moved to southern AB and really started hammering the ducks. Bismuth, Hevi and TM went WAY up in price to the point that I couldn't justify it as a regular shooting load. I went back to try steel and found out that in the ensuing years the shells have gotten a lot better in terms of their performance -- especially the smaller shot sizes fired at high velocity (I also bought a Benelli SBE that fits me perfectly and may account for better shooting too).
So I guess if I had my choice to shoot whatever I wanted and cost wasn't a factor I would rank my shot choices as:
1) Hevishot
2)Tungsten Matrix
3)Lead
4)Bismuth
5)Black Cloud Steel (not convinced yet but willing to give it a good run)
6)Regular Steel
I haven't tried all the others out there yet (Hevisteel, and all the other HD shot) but I have 2 boxes of Federal HD that I will be trying out this weekend.
I don't recall the exact year steel came into law but I was one of the first groups of hunters in Canada forced to make the switch. I was young then and essentially learned to wing shoot with steel. Then when Bismuth came out, I made the switch so that I could use my grandfather's old semi. What a difference!!! I swore I'd never shoot steel again and for several years didn't.
Then I moved to southern AB and really started hammering the ducks. Bismuth, Hevi and TM went WAY up in price to the point that I couldn't justify it as a regular shooting load. I went back to try steel and found out that in the ensuing years the shells have gotten a lot better in terms of their performance -- especially the smaller shot sizes fired at high velocity (I also bought a Benelli SBE that fits me perfectly and may account for better shooting too).
So I guess if I had my choice to shoot whatever I wanted and cost wasn't a factor I would rank my shot choices as:
1) Hevishot
2)Tungsten Matrix
3)Lead
4)Bismuth
5)Black Cloud Steel (not convinced yet but willing to give it a good run)
6)Regular Steel
I haven't tried all the others out there yet (Hevisteel, and all the other HD shot) but I have 2 boxes of Federal HD that I will be trying out this weekend.
Maybe we don't need your 'more plausible explanation'. I trust the man for what he's worth. If he says his shaking caused shot to fall, I believe him. Stop twisting this thread into something it isn't, before it's locked up.
Maybe we don't need your 'more plausible explanation'. I trust the man for what he's worth. If he says his shaking caused shot to fall, I believe him. Stop twisting this thread into something it isn't, before it's locked up.
Please give it a rest Fry, your attempts at inflaming the situation are abhorently biased and subjective.
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Maybe we don't need your 'more plausible explanation'. I trust the man for what he's worth. If he says his shaking caused shot to fall, I believe him. Stop twisting this thread into something it isn't, before it's locked up.
Do you even read these threads Fry or do you just read what you want and then go off half cocked? I'll try typing slower for you. I never said shot didn't fall out from shaking, I just think that Seal's explaination of how the shot got on the feathers is contrary to what I've observed and in the spirit of this messageboard and some of our desires to learn and delve deeper into things, I offered up what I thought was a far more plausible explaination. Read carefully and absorb all the words before replying and you might see what I'm trying to say.......
Not sure why the thread would get locked down other than your irratiional rants about things I never said. Seems to me the rest of us are discussing the proper ways to shoot steel, its limitations compared to lead and its terminal performance and some of the other non-tox alternatives. Despite your attempts to draw me into your childish name-calling, I'm not going to play so maybe time to sit back and take a breath...k?
I thought Seal and I were talking. I'm sure he'll ask for your help if he needs it. From what I've seen so far....he doesn't. Not sure why you think he is incapable of presenting his own facts....you really don't think much of him do you?
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Whoa boys....!
First of I am going to whisper in my thoughts. YES I did like shooting lead over steel when it first hit the market over 10 years ago. Once I learned how to shoot steel and adapted to it, I found it just as effective as lead. Remember it only takes one pellet to pass through the brain of a goose and it will fold up like a rag doll.
OH yeah I almost forgot to add my question.
How does one person manage to get 5 shots off at one duck?
First of I am going to whisper in my thoughts. YES I did like shooting lead over steel when it first hit the market over 10 years ago. Once I learned how to shoot steel and adapted to it, I found it just as effective as lead. Remember it only takes one pellet to pass through the brain of a goose and it will fold up like a rag doll.
OH yeah I almost forgot to add my question.
How does one person manage to get 5 shots off at one duck?
UMMMMMM.
Reload?
Opposable thumbs allow us to do that.
Seriously. You hit the duck on the wing with one of your first shots and then try to kill it on the water before he swims away. If the duck lays right low to the water (I've seen them swim with just the tip of their beak out of the water) this doesn't leave much of a target to hit and can take multiple shots. Especially if the duck was only wing tipped and landed 40 or more yards out.
Aiming a couple inches BELOW the waterline helps as the shot will strafe the duck. Too many people aim right at the head and then flinch sending the shot over the duck's head to score as a miss.
