Sten Truck picture.. guess how many!

A Sten, MP18, MP28, MP38 or any of the other open bolt guns which origianally lacked a mechanism to lock the bolt in place could fire if: a loaded magazine was in place, the bolt was foreward, and the gun was jarred sufficiently to cause the bolt to bounce back far enough to pick up a round from the magazine. The gun would fire one round, the sear would catch the bolt when it cycled. It was patently unsafe, and contrary to training to carry a Sten in this condition. NDs did occur. The only relatively safe way to carry an early pattern Sten, with a loaded magazine in place, was to pull back the bolt and turn the handle into the safety notch. Later guns, with the so-called Mk.5 cocking handle could have their bolts locked in the closed position.
For a Sten, or any of these similar firearms to fire an entire magazine without the trigger being deliberately pressed, there are a few possibilities. The sear may be broken, so that it cannot engage the bolt. The trigger spring may be broken, so the sear is not forced into position to engage the bolt. The trigger could be tied back, with the selector on "A". The trigger mechanism could be stripped out of the gun. If any of these situations were to occur, and if the butt of the gun were jarred, the gun could run away, and fire until the magazine was empty. Tossing a Sten into a bunker makes a good story. Stop and think about it for a while. There are good reasons why it is likely just a story.
Much was said about how a Sten could fire any 9mm ammunition, domestic or captured. This is partially true. For a Sten to function properly, it requires quality ammunition intended for use in a submachine gun. The first large supply of 9mm amunition available when the Sten was coming on stream was made by Winchester. It was perfectly good pistol spec. ammunition. Sten breeching being what it was, it was not unheard of for cases to rupture. A stoppage would occur, easily cleared by cocking the gun, turning it on its side, and shaking it. Unfortunately, sometimes the bullet would be lodged in the barrel. Bulged or burst barrels resulted. When British 9mm ammunition became available, this problem was reduced.
 
Thanks for the info.

We can argue this back and forth all we want, but the fact remains that the Sten was replaced by the Sterling after the Korean War, which made up on most of the shortcomings of the Sten.

In that same vein, the Bren gun went on to see service well into the 80's with the British, modified for the 7.62 NATO round. The Lee Enfield was phased out due to obsolescence, but still sees use with the Canadian Rangers. The Browning Hi-Power is still standard issue with the CF, and of course we still use the .50 BMG with a few mods. Yet the Sten was phased out of service barely 20 years after its introduction in favour of the Sterling/C1.

The Sten filled a needed gap in small arms production, but there are few here who would argue that it could have been made much better... save the people who collect them and get their panties in a knot whenever someone criticizes their favourite gun. :D
 
What also makes the old wives tale impossible is that a sten, with it's advanced primer ignition system, has almost no recoil. It certainly has no rotational recoil, so it will not spin like a top. In Laidlers book "the guns of dagenham", Laidler has a sterling (same principles of firing) laying flat and firing using a bowden cable. The gun just sits there and chugs away until it is empty. No climbing, no spinning, nothing.

From my short couple decades in the army, the biggest thing that really makes this an old wives tale is that the soldior is trained to respect and take care of his weapon. The instruction once was that if you were passing out on parade, you were to do so in a manner that caused the least amount of damage to your rifle. So to think that anyone would throw their sten/sterling or whatever (unless it's a hand grenade) into a room in the hopes that it was going to go off, rotate around, and kill everyone in there, is nutz.

The old wives tale about the stens wasn't helped to die much when about a decade back, the legion magazine published a story about 2 cooks (I think it was in Korea) dropping theirs on morning patrol and it running away and spinning about. The sten will empty it's full magazine in 3 seconds or so...how many times can you step in that period of time if it really did happen.

The sten hand-grenade-substitute story belongs with the edible buttons/russians-firing-our-ammo-but-we-can't-shoot-theirs and other never die myths.

stencar2.jpg

At first we did some shy polka steps to avoid getting hit, but as the rotation speed increased so did our dance. With about 10 rounds to go the muzzle of the weapon started flipping up, as if looking for a larger target. It was then that the first primitive steps of what would later become known as break-dancing came into being...
 
Good link thanx, and that's the one. :)

OK so someone send me a non-restricted version so I can mount a red dot on it and go grouse hunting with it next season. :nest: :D
The RCMP lab said I should have my semi auto sten back by Christmas. If it does make it back, and the design is now approved, there is no reason someone couldn't make an 18.5" barrel for it. Of course the full auto part won't apply. Nor will I be sending it to you or anybody else. :p
 
Sometimes I wonder how many thousands of these things (and various other firearms) that were provided to the various "resistance" units that were never turned in after the war and may be residing all cosmoed up in some old fart's closet waiting for the next war ...
 
I enjoyed my stens. They were reliable and quite accurate, for what they were. IIRC, the sten was designed to have its parts built by small factories that could turn out pieces then have the assembly done at another location.
I think the troops disliked the sten because their battle situation often was not suitable for a subgun. Can you imagine facing troops armed with rifles with a little sten? Also, a lot of the Canadian troops were rural country boys who were natually good with a rifle and a little stand off distance to the enemy would have been more comfortable.
Also, I remember hearing a distaste for the issue handguns of WW2.
 
After pondering it for while .... I come to the conclusion that the stories are <probably> bogus, but then again, toss a broken/defective Sten into a room to let her spit out a whole mag, and it <might> have the effect of a stun grenade, doesn't really hit anyone, but scares the crap out of the Germans enough that they are easily cleared once the fireworks stop and the troopies move in.
 
Sten soldiered on well into the 80's. In 1984, India PM Indira Gandhi was gunned down by her own bodyguard armed with a Sten.
 
in 6yr's of being a mechanic i have seen alot of thing's that "cant happen" actually "happen".... more often then not due to someone thinking it can be done and pissing around untill it happens... i would find that given the right situation and a light trigger any semi auto or full auto could bump fire round by round untill the mag was empty.... but it would be a fluke.... and i would like to see someone effectivly jam a stick into a full auto trigger and have the ball's to then toss said gun thru a window while it's firing all in the span of 3 second's.... hahaha ya not going to happen...
 
The RCMP lab said I should have my semi auto sten back by Christmas. If it does make it back, and the design is now approved, there is no reason someone couldn't make an 18.5" barrel for it. Of course the full auto part won't apply. Nor will I be sending it to you or anybody else. :p

And this is precisely why we will have less and less of these to play with as time goes on. IMHO your project should get opened up to the market.

The more registered as non-restricted semi autos the better.
 
To get back to the photo - that was a day's production from one plant - about 1 000 guns.
Savage made just over a million No. 4s between the fall of '41, and mid-summer of 1944, less than 3 years. That's an average of about 1 000 rifles a day. LB's rifle production peaked at the same sort of rate.
Seeing a photo like that gives an idea of just how intense production was for something as basic as a firearm.
 
Ammunition production was a veritable avalanche. During WWI British & Empire forces used some 100 000 000 rounds of 18pdr ammuntion. I've seen the figures for SAA production by DI and DA during WW2, and the numbers are staggering.
Sten production was 4+ million units, 30 odd million magazines. Canada's production of Stens was some 120 000, a drop in the bucket, compared with overall production.
K98K production was, what, some 14 000 000?
During the Viet Nam period, I worked in a factory making 2.75" rocket warheads. I think the contract was for 30 000 per month.
 
Highest Canadian sten serial number I have seen was 12L6953. I have a sequential pair about a dozen less than that in my dewat collection. Laidler gives a number of slightly less than these, but with another 5797 assembled at the wars end and sent into stores, so the final number is likely around 133,000.
I have also seen a bunch of XR 123 type serial numbers, but I am not sure what the significance of these are, and I have not seen one above XR140.
 
Thanks for the info.

We can argue this back and forth all we want, but the fact remains that the Sten was replaced by the Sterling after the Korean War, which made up on most of the shortcomings of the Sten.

In that same vein, the Bren gun went on to see service well into the 80's with the British, modified for the 7.62 NATO round. The Lee Enfield was phased out due to obsolescence, but still sees use with the Canadian Rangers. The Browning Hi-Power is still standard issue with the CF, and of course we still use the .50 BMG with a few mods. Yet the Sten was phased out of service barely 20 years after its introduction in favour of the Sterling/C1.

The Sten filled a needed gap in small arms production, but there are few here who would argue that it could have been made much better... save the people who collect them and get their panties in a knot whenever someone criticizes their favourite gun. :D

Sten MkIIs were issued to the RCAF till @1963-65.

The remaining "war reserve" CF Stens (mostly MkIIs) were destroyed after the October Crisis.

Sten MkIIs and Sten MkVs soldiered on in places like India, Pakistan, Finland ect into the 1990s

Sten MkII & MkVs really only have 1 mechanical defect:

Sten magazine housings do wear & droop, due partially to their additional use as a dust cover. This results in miss-feeds due to the changing position of presentation of the cartridges.

Sten magazines do exhibit feeding problems, due to being direct copies of the MP28-II magazine. Post war British practice included filling the view holes to minimize ingress of foreign debris. This substantially reduced feeding problems.

The Sterling design was adopted as an "ergonomic" solution as the Stens WORE OUT, not because they were substantially deficient weapons.
 
A WW2 veteran paratrooper told me that when the Germans surrendered the GIs would get rid of them as fast as they could, stomping them into the mud in the ditches. He said they all got docked $6.00 on their pay for not turning them in.

And today people think the prisoners at Guantanamo are treated poorly...:D
 
The single best Sten reference is Laidler's The Sten Machine Carbine. If the $75 price tag is too steep, it should be possible to get a copy through inter-library loan.
An example of how difficult a Sten is to shoot is my wife's first experience with one. She had previously fired a .22. Standard silhouette at 20 yds. First half dozen shots were with the selector on repetition; the balance of the magazine was fired in short bursts. All firing was from the shoulder using sights. The target had 26 holes in it.
Watched a friend break 3 clay pigeons with 5 shots at 100 yards, prone, forearm rest, over a log. This was with a Mk. III with a bronze breech block.
 
The single best Sten reference is Laidler's The Sten Machine Carbine. If the $75 price tag is too steep, it should be possible to get a copy through inter-library loan.
An example of how difficult a Sten is to shoot is my wife's first experience with one. She had previously fired a .22. Standard silhouette at 20 yds. First half dozen shots were with the selector on repetition; the balance of the magazine was fired in short bursts. All firing was from the shoulder using sights. The target had 26 holes in it.
Watched a friend break 3 clay pigeons with 5 shots at 100 yards, prone, forearm rest, over a log. This was with a Mk. III with a bronze breech block.

According to (the now late) Dave Tomlinson, picking off gophers at looong rim-fire ranges is no trick at all with a STEN MkII which has had the (loop style) butt-stock "tightened".

A (retired Airborne) friend who started in the late '50s tells me of going to the range with a few STENs and buckets of mags.

When they found mags which had stoppages they bashed them with an axe and grabbed the next one.


As to the value of the Sten? An (also sadly late) RCN friend told me (with great foaming of mouth) of losing his issued weapon at sea when "1 hand for the ship" wasn't enough. :pirate:

IIRC he got docked @$70 for the accident, and most of his bitterness related to the story that they cost $9 to make....
 
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