Steyr M-A1

Well, for breakfast today I had some 9x19 hehe.

Was out @ Phoenix and gave the M-A1 a go. Gun weighs next to nothing, trigger pull......psssh virtually non existent, it feels like 2.5-3.5lb's pull.

The sights on that gun.......wow they are nifty. Aimed at the head on my paper target, did a quick double tap, both rounds were less then an inch apart. Accuracy was bloody amazing, total tack driver @ 25yards.

This is for sure a gun I will buy before the end of the year!!!

Highly suggest this gun for everyone!!!
 
G37 said:
The story I heard was that the designer of the "M" actually worked at Glock and proposed the "M-Series" as the "New Glock" but was of course shut-down.
This individual then went to Steyr who took the idea/design and made them.
I don't know if this is true, but it's a cool story.
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I don't think so, I think you're talking about Horst Wesp, who went to work for Walther and designed the P99.

This is my opinion of the previous Steyr M9: http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/steyr_m9.htm

I wouldn't buy one unless they've sorted out the problem with the loaded chamber indicator (i.e. gotten rid of it). Mag release is a bit on the small side too. The sights cause most people to shoot high, including me. Difficult to pick up the top of the front sight rapidly because of their triangular shape.
 
IM_Lugger said:
cybershooters, in your review you said loaded chamber indicator causes erratic case ejection, how exactly?
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The same as with all pistols that use this daft method of having a loaded chamber indicator. It's a pin that sticks out of the breechface, the round depresses it and the pin sticks out of the back of the gun. I can't say I've ever used a pistol that was particularly reliable using this method of having a loaded chamber indicator.

Obviously if you have a pin sticking out the breechface it has contact with the case (which is the purpose of it) but it can cause all kinds of hang ups when the case catches on it.

You can easily grind the tip off and that solves the problem, but really it should have been designed a bit more cleverly.

As for a designer leaving Glock to work for Steyr, that basically tells you all you need to know about Glock. Really Glock have lost the plot, IMO. You'd think by now they would have corrected some of the very obvious problems with the Glock pistol, such as the unsupported chamber problem on the .40s, the plastic sights that everyone moans about because they get easily damaged, but no. Also you'd think by now they'd have a model out with a 1911-angle grip or with interchangeable backstraps, but no. Or how about a model with a manual safety lever, which people have been asking for for decades now? And why the hell did they put those goofy finger grooves on the grip - we don't all have fingers the same width? Bit too much in love with themselves, I think.

The SIG Pro is a better pistol for all-around police use, IMO. And the French obviously agree as they placed the largest pistol order since WW2 with Sauer for the SIG Pro.
 
cybershooters said:
As for a designer leaving Glock to work for Steyr, that basically tells you all you need to know about Glock. Really Glock have lost the plot, IMO. You'd think by now they would have corrected some of the very obvious problems with the Glock pistol, such as the unsupported chamber problem on the .40s, the plastic sights that everyone moans about because they get easily damaged, but no. Also you'd think by now they'd have a model out with a 1911-angle grip or with interchangeable backstraps, but no. Or how about a model with a manual safety lever, which people have been asking for for decades now? And why the hell did they put those goofy finger grooves on the grip - we don't all have fingers the same width? Bit too much in love with themselves, I think.
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what's the problem with the .40 glock being unsupported? your's blow up?

it does have a manual safety lever. it's called a trigger.

the plastic sights do suck balls.

why change the grip to please 1911 shooters? they're all plastic haters for the most part anyway. though interchangeable backstraps would be nice. as far as the front grooves go: grind em off, glocks are cheap.
 
what's the problem with the .40 glock being unsupported? your's blow up?

it does have a manual safety lever. it's called a trigger.

the plastic sights do suck balls.

why change the grip to please 1911 shooters? they're all plastic haters for the most part anyway. though interchangeable backstraps would be nice. as far as the front grooves go: grind em off, glocks are cheap.
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FYI Steyr has a 111 degree grip angle (same as 1911); I don't think it's about pleasing 1911 fans, most shooters in general find Glocks' grip angle a little off.

the problem with unsupported chamber is that you can't shoot hot loads, or at least not supposed to; Buffalo Bore (maker of the hottest ammo I'm aware of) on their website makes it very clear that you not supposed to use their .40 ammo in a Glock.
 
IM_Lugger said:
the problem with unsupported chamber is that you can't shoot hot loads, or at least not supposed to; Buffalo Bore (maker of the hottest ammo I'm aware of) on their website makes it very clear that you not supposed to use their .40 ammo in a Glock.
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i guess so. there are always those who feel the need to explore the maximum ceiling pressure. i always wondered if it makes your paper die better at the range? you'd think with the quality selection of defensive ammunition available today that this wouldn't be a great big issue.
 
but even regular winchester ammo leaves a bulge on every case....

so why won't they 'fix' the chamber and the same support as other .40s have? :confused:
 
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IM_Lugger said:
but even regular winchester ammo leaves a bulge on every case....

so why won't they 'fix' the chamber and the same support as other .40s have? :confused:
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so, in your opinion, why is this a problem? do you think that the brass is more likely to rupture?
 
^ quote from bufallo bore website;

There is such a variety of 40 S&W pistols in public use that we will not determine what pistols are compatible with which 40 S&W +P loads—this is your responsibility! We will add that this ammo is safe in pistols that use a fully supported chamber. Please read the safety notices below. The first one is taken form the Speer #13 loading manual. The second is taken from Hodgdons #27 loading manual.

SAFETY NOTICE

“Some pistols chambered for the 40 S&W cartridge may not provide complete support of the case head. If this condition exists, normal pressure loads such as those shown here can cause the case wall to bulge or rupture at the unsupported point. Contact your firearm manufacturer to determine if your pistol completely supports the case head, or ask a gunsmith to inspect your pistol before using it with ANY ammunition. It is the gun owners responsibility to know his firearm and its capabilities and limitations.”

40 S&W WARNING

“This data is intended for use in firearms which fully support the cartridge in the chamber. Use of this data in firearms which do not fully support the cartridge may result in bulged cases, ruptured cases, case head separation, or other conditions which may result in damage to the firearm and/or result in injury or death of the shooter or bystanders.”

Glock happens to chamber their 40 S&W pistols without a fully supported chamber and both of those above safety notices are likely aimed at Glock. I know of no other 40 S&W handguns being sold in the US that don’t have fully supported chambers. If you really want to shoot our 40S&W ammo in your Glock, have an after market barrel that uses a supported chamber, dropped into it. This is a fairly common practice and will give you the safety margin needed to fire our ammo in your Glock. It will also likely give you more velocity that the factory Glock barrel...
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manboy said:
what's the problem with the .40 glock being unsupported? your's blow up?

it does have a manual safety lever. it's called a trigger.

the plastic sights do suck balls.

why change the grip to please 1911 shooters? they're all plastic haters for the most part anyway. though interchangeable backstraps would be nice. as far as the front grooves go: grind em off, glocks are cheap.
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I'm not suggesting they replace the gun; I'm suggesting they come out with very obvious alternative models. I've lost count of the number of people I've met who can't stand the grip angle on the Glock, or who would like to have a manual safety lever on the gun. For example, one of the police forces local to me decided not to buy the Glock for that very reason.

The Glock was designed for military use in Austria, where pistols are carried in Condition 3, i.e. chamber empty. A safety lever isn't an issue in that situation, but it is when carried in Condition 1, which is how most police forces carry them.

The Glock 22 I had didn't blow up, but I've stood next to one that did, and it's a common occurence.

BTW, in that above post it mentions ".40 S&W +P". No such animal exists, SAAMI have only got +P specifications for .38 Special and 9mm Para because they're such old cartridges, IIRC. Any other cartridge with that designation is just a marketing gimmick.
 
IM_Lugger said:
so why won't they 'fix' the chamber and the same support as other .40s have? :confused:
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For liability reasons; they'd have to admit there is a problem and recall all the guns and replace the barrels, like they did with the firing pins when they found the guns went full-auto with the old design. That one they couldn't get out of because ATF was talking about stopping the import of Glocks.

Plus they pass the Austrian proof test, so it's hard to make a liability suit succeed (in Austria at any rate), I suspect as they've passed a government approved test, even though in this particular situation it's not entirely relevant.

It's a similar situation with the slides cracking through the serial numbers under the ejection port, it's a very simple fix - move the serial number further forward on the slide, but if they did that, everyone would start asking why they'd done it. Easier to ignore the odd person whinging about it on a BBS like this.

Anyway, sooner or later the laws of supply and demand will force them to have a rethink, because these are genuine problems, it's not as if we're making them up.
 
cybershooters said:
I've lost count of the number of people I've met who can't stand the grip angle on the Glock, or who would like to have a manual safety lever on the gun. For example, one of the police forces local to me decided not to buy the Glock for that very reason.

The Glock 22 I had didn't blow up, but I've stood next to one that did, and it's a common occurence.
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well that's the joy of an internet forum. we can all have an opinion.

though it's really beyond me how everyone thinks there is no manual safety. there is: the trigger. it's a training issue. if you need to have your finger on the trigger all the time, then your unsafe to begin with, and if your holster doesn't properly fit the gun,and safely cover the trigger, that's a gear issue. glocks fire when the trigger is pressed. that's the only way. it's a military/police defensive tool, designed to draw, fire, kill bad guy. that simple.

as for your opinion that G22's blowing up is a common occurence, i'd be curious to know where your info comes from. are all these "kabooms" classic examples of idiocy? shooting hot reloads? lead bullets? all the things the instructions specifically tell people to avoid? if that's the case then they deserve to have their gun blow up. it's like buying a chainsaw and putting straight gas in it and wondering why the damn thing don't work.

how often do you shoot your G22?
 
Never, because I sold it about ten years ago. :p It had about 8,000 rounds through it, IIRC. Just do a search on "Glock kaboom" if you want more info. A lot of them do happen with handloads, the one that blew up next to me was being used with handloads, however this is not to say they were handloads that would have been unsafe in any other gun. The case bulges near the case head because of the unsupported part of the chamber, this weakens the case and that's what causes the case head separation, when a reused case pops there.

I'm afraid I don't buy into this: "the trigger is the safety" argument. Never have. The usual argument is: "well, revolvers don't have safeties either". And Glocks don't have long 12lb+ trigger pulls. With an ordinary DA trigger pull it's not such a problem, with a Glock it is. In stressful situations, a 5lb trigger pull isn't much resistance, which is why Glock had to come up with heavier trigger pulls, (the "NY" and "NY+" connectors) because there were so many complaints about it.

People sit there and say training is the issue, but reality is that a common accident is cops putting guns in their holster with their finger on the trigger. Pulling a gun out and pointing it at someone is a high-stress thing to do and it's easy to get wound up and make a mistake. With a stock Glock, you've got less margin for error.

And bear in mind that going from revolvers to Glocks is not always the case - a lot of police forces went from things like PPKs, Browning Hi-Powers and so on to Glocks, and they were used to having a safety on the gun.

Frankly I do find manual safeties to be a PITA, which is why I like SIG-Sauers, but then again I'm not a cop carrying a gun on my hip all day.

Anyway, who cares, either Glock makes models with a manual safety, different grip shapes, etc. or they will lose market share, which is exactly what's happening.
 
again, most of your opinion is based on the belief that minimal training should gain maximum effect. the pistol was made to shoot factory ammo. if cops reholster with their finger on the trigger, then it really doesn't matter if there is a manual safety, eventually they will have a ND.

those 4 rules of firearm safety were not made lightly.

it is true that Glock will have to make some changes if they want to continue to sell millions of pistols every year, it's just tough to motivate a company to do so because of consumer idiocy.

that's my piece, you'd think i work for glock. time to go detail strip my norinco now.....lol.
 
I think holding the Glock sideways like a gangsta will improve reliability of the gun.

Well, at least it didn't blow up on them when they use it like that anyway.
 
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