Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
Which one would you choose for 1000m shooting, and plinking?
SSG or Scout?
SSG or Scout?
Steyr SSG or Scout rifle
- Thread starter Got Juice?
- Start date
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
I have both. Steyr SSG 69 (on the left), and the Steyr Scout (on the right) in the picture.
A few things I would keep in mind:
- SSG 69 is not made anymore, parts are expensive and not really available anyway;
- SSG 04 and 08 are still made, as far as I know;
- The distance of 1000m doesn't really mean that much on its own, other than it sets an initial high bar. Do you mean shoot for groups, competitively at 1000m? I don't think either one of these is the rifle, or really even the cartridge, for that. A KM is a long damn way to shoot, especially with a .308. Sure, all kinds of people do it, but if you are really planning to do a lot of shooting at a KM, I would probably do more research than starting with two older Steyr products.
- The defining feature of the scout rifle is that it is light. It has a skinny light barrel, which - like so many hunting rifles - is accurate for about 3-5 shots, and then it has to cool down. It is the wrong gun to take out to the range and pump 40-60 rounds through in an hour or two. I think it is more of a 100-200m rifle. I think of it as a nice rifle to carry around, and still be able to hit something pretty small at 200m on a cold-bore shot. It shoots, I would say sub-MOA on these cool barrel shots in the 100-200m range. If you can get on paper with a scout rifle at 1 KM... with any kind of optics... well, certainly it is possible, but it won't be easy. The one I am showing here has a 2.5-10x40 scope, which is excellent, and it is a great shooting rifle... but I don't know if I could touch something at 1 KM with it. Maybe. Like a three-foot gong maybe. It certainly isn't going to be every shot.
- The SSG69 is a much heavier barrel gun, with a barrel that is 7 inches longer. Both are very accurate, but the SSG will stand up to sustained fire MUCH better. It is more accurate overall as well. The thing with the old SSG's is, they have a dovetail receiver with proprietary 1" rings. You need more scope to realistically shoot at 1 KM. There are 30mm rings and picatinny rails and things for them, but.... I personally wouldn't do that with one. I like them the way I have mine: the classic fixed 6x Khales scope... all original. It will shoot the lights out against another 6-power scoped rifle, but this is in the 100-300m range. I think its practical range is like 600m. Maybe in the Austrian Army they can do better, but it isn't going to be easy. You can see the bullet holes at 100m with the 6x, but not really much beyond that.
If I were going to get a rifle to shoot at 1000m, I would get something somewhat modular that you could change around as needed, that didn't cost too much (o.k., a Remington 700) but I would do it in 300WinMag or .338LapMag. Some may disagree, and I am not the expert here, but, to try and make the .308WIN a 1000m rifle, it is an uphill battle from the start.
I think I went to heaven. Your collection is outstanding!!!! Wow. When the range gets set up, I will send you an invitation!!!
Mostly I plan to fool around with the .308 Steyr caught my eye, and with a 3-4K rifle budget, I thought it might be worth a go. Given what you have said, I might have to re-evaluate. Thanks for the help!!
mebiuspower
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Morontario
Steyr Scout is too light of a rifle to do any real long distance shooting... it's simply not designed for that.
May I suggest SSG08 for the job.
May I suggest SSG08 for the job.
Last edited:
I have had a few SSG69s and I didn't like them because of the mags and stocks.
The locking lugs on the mags kept breaking and a friend of mine had his stock crack around the action area.
Like Mebiuspower said I would consider the SSG08 if you can handle the price tag.
I still have the Kahles 6 power scope off one of my SSG69s don't use it but nice scope.
The locking lugs on the mags kept breaking and a friend of mine had his stock crack around the action area.
Like Mebiuspower said I would consider the SSG08 if you can handle the price tag.
I still have the Kahles 6 power scope off one of my SSG69s don't use it but nice scope.
If the choices were an SSG or a Scout for plinking and 1000yds .... I would pick the SSG ..... it does have its 'vulnerabilities' as previously mentioned but it also has some strong advantages: the SSG 69 is reasonably light and has very functional iron sights. The barrel is excellent with a long service life and accuracy is very very good and remains good at longer ranges (this may or may not have something to do with the fact that the action is a rear locker and has a very long barrel tenon with a press fit) The trigger is nice even with the single trigger. and it is impervious to rain, snow etc. It feeds extremely well and is very quick to operate. It is also a nice 'handling' rifle.
If you wanted to stay with Steyr but were open to other suggestions ... the SSG08 is certainly the 'cats ass' but even better would be the Match 96 M300 which has a 'slightly' different action with a longer tenon than the '08 and other SBS based actions. No longer made -- but occasionally available they probably represent the most accurate of the factory Steyr precision rifles ... made in 7.5x55 Swiss and .308W
If you wanted to stay with Steyr but were open to other suggestions ... the SSG08 is certainly the 'cats ass' but even better would be the Match 96 M300 which has a 'slightly' different action with a longer tenon than the '08 and other SBS based actions. No longer made -- but occasionally available they probably represent the most accurate of the factory Steyr precision rifles ... made in 7.5x55 Swiss and .308W
lineofsight
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lower Mainland, BC
If you're going to re-evaluate would start with caliber, action, weight / barrel length / stock... both your options are bolt and potentially .308 but with weight and barrel length differences between the two maybe first decide what you really want to do. Your budget leaves you with a plethora of options. If thinking 1000m may also want to save some money for good dies.
Neither .338 nor .50 are cheap to shoot, .300 WM may be best common choice (personally went with .300 WSM as like push better than punch in terms of recoil and now working on a 7mm-08).
Recently handled a very nice folding stock medium contour barrel AE MKII in .308, perhaps worth a look for you.
Neither .338 nor .50 are cheap to shoot, .300 WM may be best common choice (personally went with .300 WSM as like push better than punch in terms of recoil and now working on a 7mm-08).
Recently handled a very nice folding stock medium contour barrel AE MKII in .308, perhaps worth a look for you.
Shooting to a K perhaps consider buying (or having built) a shooter in one of the many fine 6.5 calibres - .260, 6.5x67 etc etc - they will easily exceed the ballistic performance of the .308 and will be cheaper ( a lot cheaper ) to shoot than .300 wm or .338 LM and as someone who has rifles chambered in each of the 5 calibres mentioned in this post I can say that the 6.5's are simply nicer to shoot over an extended period.
For 3-4000$, if i was going steyr in 308 it would be the tactical elite/elite.
For a little more, if i was after more precision than plinking, the ssg04a1, in 300wm.
I like my ssg04a1, but would like to go back to an elite in 308, a little cheaper than plinking with the 300wm.
For a little more, if i was after more precision than plinking, the ssg04a1, in 300wm.
I like my ssg04a1, but would like to go back to an elite in 308, a little cheaper than plinking with the 300wm.
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
BCshooterFMJ
Regular
- Location
- British Columbia
I don't mean to high jack a thread. But those guns are beautiful. I need to ask what upper and tube/handguard that is on the AR. Hands down one of the sweetest set ups I have ever seen.
It's the same rifle as in this thread here, HK MR308A3/G28. I have changed it around a bit since that photo was taken. Maybe I will update the photo one of these days when I get them all out on the floor. A lot of people have liked that photo, and I like it too. Something interesting about the vertical orientation and the scale.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1470252-Finishing-off-my-HK-MR308A3-G28
Earlier thread on it:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1293268-Tactical-Imports-HK-MR308A3-G28-RAL8000-(pictures)?
I like these shots too, but I need better light. I've been working on the accessories for my "Eastern" collection (just regular Mosin-Nagant, SKS, SVT-40, TT-33, CZ858, Vz.61, Baikal "Makarov") and I have some stuff coming in the mail for that which I want to do some pictures of when it gets here, so maybe I can get these expensive Euro-rifles out to do some updated pictures too. It's actually a ton of work. That is why you don't see that many pictures on websites like this!
Mebisuspower's SSG-08 photo with the Steyr pistol and the Austrian (German?) gear is fantastic. That is the kind of sharpness I want in my pics!
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1470252-Finishing-off-my-HK-MR308A3-G28
Earlier thread on it:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1293268-Tactical-Imports-HK-MR308A3-G28-RAL8000-(pictures)?
I like these shots too, but I need better light. I've been working on the accessories for my "Eastern" collection (just regular Mosin-Nagant, SKS, SVT-40, TT-33, CZ858, Vz.61, Baikal "Makarov") and I have some stuff coming in the mail for that which I want to do some pictures of when it gets here, so maybe I can get these expensive Euro-rifles out to do some updated pictures too. It's actually a ton of work. That is why you don't see that many pictures on websites like this!
Mebisuspower's SSG-08 photo with the Steyr pistol and the Austrian (German?) gear is fantastic. That is the kind of sharpness I want in my pics!
Last edited:
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
I feel like the donald duck orgasm just looking at the pics..
If I told you what I had to put into it, to do all this, you would be a little less enthusiastic I think! I only really buy less expensive stuff these days!
With the AW (an 08), I had a different one previously (an 02), and when this one became available I sold it, and some other stuff, to get the one in the pics. I was really appallingly expensive. These AW (pre-2011 style, and now all AW) are not made any more and are hard to find in nice shape, so if they ever come up, it is really a "fish or cut bait" scenario. You are either going to make it happen, and take the hit, or move on. This one is set up with the S&B PMII 5-25x56 and the 45MOA base (which you need to make the sight work). The whole thing is an incredibly nice set-up to shoot.
The SSG 69 PI is a 2004, which is one of the last years for the production of these. The PI's have not been made since about the mid-2000's, and now they don't make any 69's at all. There are more of them floating around (by far) than the AI's though. This one was an all original, scope installed at the factory, Khales 6x42 package, that came from O'Dell Engineering. This is one of my favorite rifles (all three of these are). It is a very simplified system to shoot, especially compared to some of the scopes today. On the rifle, you have to make sure no solvent ever gets near the plastic mags and magwell (which is dumb, but it is an almost 50 year old design, and that is how they did it). I had two earlier SSG 69's (which were late 70s/early 80s models) and I learned my lesson on the first one (and had to replace the magwell). No solvents, do not over-tighten the screws, and do not drop the mags on hard surface. Follow all that and nothing happens to them. But in today's day-in-age you could drive a 1 ton truck over a GLOCK mag, and not notice any difference. I don't think you could do that with the new-type Steyr mags - but only because they have more hollow area inside them than a GLOCK mag. They are made out of the same kind of material.
The Scout is... I think this one is around 2011. I'd have to have a look at it. Steyr (since about 1982-84) always have both the year and the month on them. Again, this is a situation where I had an older one, and then sold it to buy this one brand new from company that used to advertise here on CGN, but I think is gone now. These are great rifles. It is a rifle to carry around with you though, not one of these heavy precision rifles. In some of these photos you can really see the difference in the barrel. There is probably less than half the steel in the barrel than some of the other rifles. The AI is the heaviest by far. Realistically you can't shoot it from any position other than prone or off a bench. Shooting it off hand standing... it is really heavy. You could get a shot off but...what's the point. The Scout is the kind of rifle where you can actually practice shooting standing, kneeling, etc. and actually improve.
I sort of think of these rifles as Heavy, Medium and Light... with the HK being a heavy semi-auto.
I only really buy less expensive stuff these days!With the AW (an 08), I had a different one previously (an 02), and when this one became available I sold it, and some other stuff, to get the one in the pics. I was really appallingly expensive. These AW (pre-2011 style, and now all AW) are not made any more and are hard to find in nice shape, so if they ever come up, it is really a "fish or cut bait" scenario. You are either going to make it happen, and take the hit, or move on. This one is set up with the S&B PMII 5-25x56 and the 45MOA base (which you need to make the sight work). The whole thing is an incredibly nice set-up to shoot.
The SSG 69 PI is a 2004, which is one of the last years for the production of these. The PI's have not been made since about the mid-2000's, and now they don't make any 69's at all. There are more of them floating around (by far) than the AI's though. This one was an all original, scope installed at the factory, Khales 6x42 package, that came from O'Dell Engineering. This is one of my favorite rifles (all three of these are). It is a very simplified system to shoot, especially compared to some of the scopes today. On the rifle, you have to make sure no solvent ever gets near the plastic mags and magwell (which is dumb, but it is an almost 50 year old design, and that is how they did it). I had two earlier SSG 69's (which were late 70s/early 80s models) and I learned my lesson on the first one (and had to replace the magwell). No solvents, do not over-tighten the screws, and do not drop the mags on hard surface. Follow all that and nothing happens to them. But in today's day-in-age you could drive a 1 ton truck over a GLOCK mag, and not notice any difference. I don't think you could do that with the new-type Steyr mags - but only because they have more hollow area inside them than a GLOCK mag. They are made out of the same kind of material.
The Scout is... I think this one is around 2011. I'd have to have a look at it. Steyr (since about 1982-84) always have both the year and the month on them. Again, this is a situation where I had an older one, and then sold it to buy this one brand new from company that used to advertise here on CGN, but I think is gone now. These are great rifles. It is a rifle to carry around with you though, not one of these heavy precision rifles. In some of these photos you can really see the difference in the barrel. There is probably less than half the steel in the barrel than some of the other rifles. The AI is the heaviest by far. Realistically you can't shoot it from any position other than prone or off a bench. Shooting it off hand standing... it is really heavy. You could get a shot off but...what's the point. The Scout is the kind of rifle where you can actually practice shooting standing, kneeling, etc. and actually improve.
I sort of think of these rifles as Heavy, Medium and Light... with the HK being a heavy semi-auto.
By "ordinary people", you mean "civilians", those people the police think of as being "civilians", no ?
Maybe, "ordinary people" should not be allowed to own and use such formidable rifles as the Steyr Mannlicher SSG 69 rifles and AI AW rifles ... !
I have both. Steyr SSG 69 (on the left), and the Steyr Scout (on the right) in the picture.
A few things I would keep in mind:
- SSG 69 is not made anymore, parts are expensive and not really available anyway;
- SSG 04 and 08 are still made, as far as I know;
- The distance of 1000m doesn't really mean that much on its own, other than it sets an initial high bar. Do you mean shoot for groups, competitively at 1000m? I don't think either one of these is the rifle, or really even the cartridge, for that. A KM is a long damn way to shoot, especially with a .308. Sure, all kinds of people do it, but if you are really planning to do a lot of shooting at a KM, I would probably do more research than starting with two older Steyr products.
- The defining feature of the scout rifle is that it is light. It has a skinny light barrel, which - like so many hunting rifles - is accurate for about 3-5 shots, and then it has to cool down. It is the wrong gun to take out to the range and pump 40-60 rounds through in an hour or two. I think it is more of a 100-200m rifle. I think of it as a nice rifle to carry around, and still be able to hit something pretty small at 200m on a cold-bore shot. It shoots, I would say sub-MOA on these cool barrel shots in the 100-200m range. If you can get on paper with a scout rifle at 1 KM... with any kind of optics... well, certainly it is possible, but it won't be easy. The one I am showing here has a 2.5-10x40 scope, which is excellent, and it is a great shooting rifle... but I don't know if I could touch something at 1 KM with it. Maybe. Like a three-foot gong maybe. It certainly isn't going to be every shot.
- The SSG69 is a much heavier barrel gun, with a barrel that is 7 inches longer. Both are very accurate, but the SSG will stand up to sustained fire MUCH better. It is more accurate overall as well. The thing with the old SSG's is, they have a dovetail receiver with proprietary 1" rings. You need more scope to realistically shoot at 1 KM. There are 30mm rings and picatinny rails and things for them, but.... I personally wouldn't do that with one. I like them the way I have mine: the classic fixed 6x Khales scope... all original. It will shoot the lights out against another 6-power scoped rifle, but this is in the 100-300m range. I think its practical range is like 600m. Maybe in the Austrian Army they can do better, but it isn't going to be easy. You can see the bullet holes at 100m with the 6x, but not really much beyond that.
If I were going to get a rifle to shoot at 1000m, I would get something somewhat modular that you could change around as needed, that didn't cost too much (o.k., a Remington 700) but I would do it in 300WinMag or .338LapMag. Some may disagree, and I am not the expert here, but, to try and make the .308WIN a 1000m rifle, it is an uphill battle from the start.
Suggesting a .300WM or .338 Lapua is really doing people a disservice. Expensive to shoot and high recoil - there's a good reason why magnums are always up for sale with low round counts. If he wanted to shoot a mile or more than I may agree with these suggestions.
.308 can easily do 1000m shooting. Sure there are better calibers out there, but to say it's not a 1000m caliber is flat out incorrect.
Nothing at all wrong with a .308 - especially of you want to get good at reading the wind. You can also make the .308 more competitive if you reload. There's also a plethora of 6 & 6.5mm options which are great target rounds.
Do yourself a favor and ignore the people that are suggesting Magnum calibers - completely overkill and unnecessary for your needs.
