STG-44 or CZ455?? Solved! Purchased :D
- Thread starter CanadianBaconPancakes
- Start date
With or without the burr?
What is it you are implying?
The CZ will shoot bug holes compared to the stg44.
What do want for proof?
Pictures of gopher carnage ar 25 yards to 75 yards or pictures of the dime I shot at 25 yards or the nickel at 50 yards?
My experience has been with 452 in .22, 22 Magnum not as accurate as the 22 and a 452 Varmint and now I have a 455 that is for sale in 17 hmr with the factory target posted.
While it shows it can be covered with a .50 piece and that may not be the mail in target contest it does show promising results.
I am sure if I where to lay off the coffee before a day in the gravel pit I could duplicate it and even improve upon it.
I still say the CZ are a very good rim fire for the money.
Others will differ of course and that's fine by me too.
Tight Groups.
Rob
"Accuracy" means different things to different people. I'm just saying I see a ton of comments like "They're tack drivers!" "Very accurate" "Bugholes all day" etc, but nobody states their average group sizes to quantify exactly what they mean by "accurate". (This trend is not exclusive to CZs, people owning all kinds of firearms generically say they are "accurate" but do not include a hard number with that statement.)
I'm trying to gauge the general threshold for what kind of performance people are considering "accurate". I mean, I've read some gun reviews where they're raving about "tack driving accuracy" then you find they are only shooting about 3/4" groups at 50 yards, so the eyes get rolled
and the credibility of the reviewer gets discredited. To me, call it a "tack driver" if you can nail 0.2s and 0.3s on a good day with it's preferred ammo. Otherwise, it's a decent shooter to reliably shoot 1/2"-3/4", and a poor shooter if it is around 1"+.
I'm trying to gauge the general threshold for what kind of performance people are considering "accurate". I mean, I've read some gun reviews where they're raving about "tack driving accuracy" then you find they are only shooting about 3/4" groups at 50 yards, so the eyes get rolled
and the credibility of the reviewer gets discredited. To me, call it a "tack driver" if you can nail 0.2s and 0.3s on a good day with it's preferred ammo. Otherwise, it's a decent shooter to reliably shoot 1/2"-3/4", and a poor shooter if it is around 1"+."Accuracy" means different things to different people. I'm just saying I see a ton of comments like "They're tack drivers!" "Very accurate" "Bugholes all day" etc, but nobody states their average group sizes to quantify exactly what they mean by "accurate". (This trend is not exclusive to CZs, people owning all kinds of firearms generically say they are "accurate" but do not include a hard number with that statement.)
I'm trying to gauge the general threshold for what kind of performance people are considering "accurate". I mean, I've read some gun reviews where they're raving about "tack driving accuracy" then you find they are only shooting about 3/4" groups at 50 yards, so the eyes get rolled
Well , That Was easy.....
Rob
Hey, I ain't here to start a pissin' match again, just wanna know what kinda performance the average Joe gets outta their CZ to make 'em come online and say "Woohoo!! It's super 'accurate!'"
And to be fair, here's some of that CZ good good at 50 yards with .17 HMR, second range trip from a round count of 150-300. Looks to have the makings of being a reliable 1 MOA shooter. 22 LR CZs and me? All have struggled to shoot under an inch at 50, and in no way can I ever say they're "tack drivers" with a straight face, but that's just my experience.
Hey, I ain't here to start a pissin' match again, just wanna know what kinda performance the average Joe gets outta their CZ to make 'em come online and say "Woohoo!! It's super 'accurate!'"
And to be fair, here's some of that CZ good good at 50 yards with .17 HMR, second range trip from a round count of 150-300. Looks to have the makings of being a reliable 1 MOA shooter. 22 LR CZs and me? All have struggled to shoot under an inch at 50, and in no way can I ever say they're "tack drivers" with a straight face, but that's just my experience.
What scope is that and what rings?
I don't know that the size of the magazine on a bolt action .22LR should decide the issue, but congratulations on seeing the light. Five and ten round CZ magazines are available that fit both 455's and 452's. It's reassuring that you saw the difference between a rifle and a spray and play gun.
Note that the Supermatch has a beech stock, while the American, Lux, and Varmint models have walnut. The iron sights on the Supermatch (and Lux) allow for use without optics.
I also have a Sightron SII 6-24 with the target dot reticle and like it very much.
Hey, I ain't here to start a pissin' match again, just wanna know what kinda performance the average Joe gets outta their CZ to make 'em come online and say "Woohoo!! It's super 'accurate!'"
And to be fair, here's some of that CZ good good at 50 yards with .17 HMR, second range trip from a round count of 150-300. Looks to have the makings of being a reliable 1 MOA shooter. 22 LR CZs and me? All have struggled to shoot under an inch at 50, and in no way can I ever say they're "tack drivers" with a straight face, but that's just my experience.
Hey Rabid~I consider myself to be just OK at target shooting, but what I lack in ability I make up for in enthusiasm. And good looks.
Anyhow, looking at your target photo I'm reminded of the 452 Varmint 17HMR I once had, and (like lots of rifles, rimfire and otherwise) how it showed a STRONG preference for 20gr. Hornady ammo. As in, shot everything else around 3/4"-1"...but that stuff it shot amazingly well. I once shot a 5 shot, 100 meter 3/8" group with that rifle and these days...I have a hard time duplicating those results with my .223 and handloads off a much better rest. I never photographed that target, but kept it on the wall for a long time. Only rifle I ever regretted selling. You can believe me/not believe me~your choice of course.My 452 Varmint in 22 has exceeded my expectations but my expectations were to be minute-of-gopher. Just wanted to be able to connect out to 100 yards, and crossed my fingers that I could achieve that with something OTHER than match-grade($) ammo. The gun manages that just fine, even in my hands. Only my second CZ 452 Varmint, but these kind of results with cheap ammo kind of warm the heart.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...int-shoots-OK!-**UPDATE-photos-added-page-3**
Is the accuracy spectacular? For a gun in this price range shooting CCI Blazer and SK~I don't know....? Exceeded my expectations though. I run as many different kinds of 22 ammo I can through a new rifle, in the best conditions I can. Seems that one or two types of ammo emerge as the gun's favorite, and I've never even tried match-grade stuff. I go into it with no expectations, then let the rifle tell me what it likes.
CPP you will do well for Grouse with the bolt action over the Semi Auto.
Hands down a better choice for chicken sniping.
Rabid, I do not post to annoy or pizz anyone off over my appreciation of the CZ.
Your lack of stellar results with your 455 have been well documented and I feel your pain.
I questioned it a few times before posting my comments in that thread and have even thought it plausible there is something in the 455 design that may have something to do with your claims/observations and first hand experience.
But, I still suggest the CZ is an affordable and accurate gun for the average guy and should the next step above average be an Anschutz then thats the obvious next step.
Rob
Hands down a better choice for chicken sniping.
Rabid, I do not post to annoy or pizz anyone off over my appreciation of the CZ.
Your lack of stellar results with your 455 have been well documented and I feel your pain.
I questioned it a few times before posting my comments in that thread and have even thought it plausible there is something in the 455 design that may have something to do with your claims/observations and first hand experience.
But, I still suggest the CZ is an affordable and accurate gun for the average guy and should the next step above average be an Anschutz then thats the obvious next step.
Rob
I think that neither gun is for you.The bolt action CZ's are overrated in my opinion.Slow and clumsy to shoot, but slightly more accurate than most semi's.My Browning BL22 shoots better than my CZ and is faster and a lot more fun.Lighter, more reliable, and better made as well.I have owned both guns for a long time so I know which one is better.I have never owned a bolt gun that I liked except for my K98 is what the CZ should have been made like.A poor copy at best.
CZ .. no doubt at all .. well made ! good walnut ... accurate. and has a massive following
NB .. price is going up all the time
my BL22 won't even come close to out shooting my 452 ... or any of my semi's ... or even the several cooey single shots that i have, which are legends in some peoples minds ( yuck )
there alway these guy's that'll talk up some odd ball 22 into some big whopper of a story ... don't get sucked in
NB .. price is going up all the time
my BL22 won't even come close to out shooting my 452 ... or any of my semi's ... or even the several cooey single shots that i have, which are legends in some peoples minds ( yuck )
there alway these guy's that'll talk up some odd ball 22 into some big whopper of a story ... don't get sucked in
^first I've heard about a CZ being less reliable than another rifle. "shoots better" is entirely subjective too, but I get that we all have our preferences. If you don't care for bolt guns, that's probably the main issue. I don't care for 22s that AREN'T bolt guns~strictly my preference. Tube mags on any gun can go straight to h_ _ _ as far as I'm concerned. I hate 'em!
Looks like you're getting what you paid for there, good accuracy and it's not an expensive diet. Might be able to tweak it a little better with some rifle mods and match ammo testing, but gains will be small for more money spent from there on in. Chasing accuracy is a sickness, I tell ya, trying to find the absolute limit can drive ya mad (and broke!). If you've shot SK then you already have a pretty good idea of what the higher grades will do in your rifle. There was some discussion of this on RFC a while back, jaia had contacted Lapua to ask how they grade their ammo lots. Reading between the lines of their response, it's all pretty much the same ammo and the grading leans heavily on the accuracy results in their tests rifles. Hard numbers weren't given for velocity consistency or accuracy requirements for the different grades, but my personal chronograph testing shows everything from SK standard plus and Rifle match through Center-X, Midas + and X-Act shows velocity spread between the varieties to be very close. It mainly comes down to the SK didn't group as well in their test rig. With rifles being so individual, perhaps in your or anyone elses rifle, the SK may group better than the Midas. So you've definitely got the right method of just testing as many ammo types as you can, and there is no need for the $$ ammo if you can avoid it!
Rob, I don't think it's the design of the 455 that's the issue, just some poor workmanship and lack of quality control on the barrels. When djdilliodon on RFC fits the 455s with custom barrels, they become amazingly accurate rifles. If CZ did a better job of chambering and crowning their barrels, I think accuracy and consistency of their product as a whole would skyrocket. As it is now, who knows if the rifle on the left or right shelf at the gun store is a lemon or a zinger? CZ is a gamble as they seem to have no system in place to detect and reject bad barrels at the factory. Here is an example of the crown that came on the .22 LR barrel my new FS was originally equipped with, as I had to buy the .17 HMR barrel set to configure it the way I wanted.
How do you defend this? How does a company make excuses for allowing this to leave the factory in this condition? A 10 second inspection per barrel and the QC guy goes "Woah! Stop the lathe! We gotta troubleshoot this thing before running any more barrels, and tag this one for crown re-work."
Maybe it's just me, but I believe a company should implement checks and processes to ensure their customers are getting the best quality product consistently.
I like the STG44 for plinking and the upper body work out! For bolt actions I use a Sako Quad and a Norinco NS 522 for target shooting. Nothing ever beats a bolt action for accuracy I find.
Just depends what you want to do with such a rifle in the end. The STG 44 is fun, and I use it as a trainer for standing / sitting and kneeling shooting. I have a couple of M305, and the STG44 has helped a lot on shooting the Norinco's in those positions.
Candocad.
Just depends what you want to do with such a rifle in the end. The STG 44 is fun, and I use it as a trainer for standing / sitting and kneeling shooting. I have a couple of M305, and the STG44 has helped a lot on shooting the Norinco's in those positions.
Candocad.
I agree and never liked bolt guns except for the venerable K98.We tend to shoot best with the guns we like.A lever action has all the accuracy and a better action to play with than bolt actions.Plus they are a lot more fun to shoot.I remember years ago at the old "Barnet gun range" they had a 10 shot grouping ,on display,shot by a visitor freehand.All the holes were touching and it was shot with a Browning SA22 not a Bolt gun.The single shot Walther's and Anshutz's are quite accurate but are heavy and slow to shoot.
