STI Trojan or?

[Protege]

A couple years ago I asked about a 1911 for IPSC classic and the overwhelming response was to get a Trojan. I never ended up getting one, and now I’m kicking myself for it. A Trojan is now $2248 at freedom ventures instead of the $1400ish it cost 2 years ago.

At $1400 it seemed like a great deal, I’m not convinced it’s now worth $2200. What other 1911’s should I look at in the $1400-$2500 range.

I’ve currently got a SAM, so I’m leaning towards buy once cry once(within reason) on this one. Where does the law of diminishing returns take over with 1911’s?

Thanks

Last week i ordered a dan wesson valor stainless in .45acp. And this week i placed an order for a dan wesson pointman 9 9mm. I am selling whatever 1911s i have because like you said, buy once cry once. I find it hard to believe that the sti sentinel premier is $1000 better than the valor or the mere fact that the top-of-the-line valor ($2200) costs the same as the entry level trojan ($2250). No way, no how. At $2600 you can get a les baer. Yeah sti can go ##### themselves. Yes I've had a sti ranger before. At $1200 it was decent. Nothing impressive but ok. To add $1000 on that is ridiculous.

Here's hoping my dan wessons don't disappoint after writing this post. Haha

 

[alpining]

I’ve currently got a SAM, so I’m leaning towards buy once cry once(within reason) on this one. Where does the law of diminishing returns take over with 1911’s?

What are you hoping will change by upgrading from your SAM 1911?

IF and only IF it's not cutting into your ammunition / training budget, spend as much as you want to. As you noted, the law of diminishing returns applies to pistols, in a big way. It also applies to training, but in a much smaller way. Many would say that going from a SAM to a Ruger isn't worth it, or from Ruger to Colt, or from etc. to etc. and on up the line. Then you can consider optionally adding hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of gunmsithing to fix up whatever model at any given price point...

Personally, I would NEVER shell out thousands on a new firearm without handling it first. If I were in your shoes and I knew that my dollars were best spent on more pistol rather than more ammo, I'd make a weekend trip happen to somewhere stocking many of these options. Perhaps even an IPSC match where a strong Classic division turnout is expected.

 

[alpining]

But whatever you do, make sure your 1911 has no firing pin block safety

 

[Canuck44]

I didn't see Joe Dlask name thrown in the mix. His prices are not out of line. He has a solid reputation for making excellent 1911's. He took my Norinco frame and slide and turned it into a tack driver custom gun. I have shot one of his 9MM guns one of our shooters has and it is one sweet pistol.

Take Care

Bob

 

[sailor723]

I didn't see Joe Dlask name thrown in the mix. His prices are not out of line. He has a solid reputation for making excellent 1911's. He took my Norinco frame and slide and turned it into a tack driver custom gun. I have shot one of his 9MM guns one of our shooters has and it is one sweet pistol.

Take Care

Bob

Is he "build to order" only? I don't think I have ever seen a 1911 on his web site listed as anything but "sold out"

 

[Canuck44]

It has been a few years since I was in his shop but it seems to me he had specimens in hand but that was some time ago. Even on a build to order basis his guns represent real value. If you are in his price range anyway I doubt there are regular production guns that would exceed his ability to produce a quality 1911.

Take Care

Bob

 

[gdawg]

Last week i ordered a dan wesson valor stainless in .45acp. And this week i placed an order for a dan wesson pointman 9 9mm. Here's hoping my dan wessons don't disappoint after writing this post. Haha

Those should both be very nice. Curious to get your impressions of the differences. I've heard all DW are built to a similar standard and differ only wrt sights, finishes, milling (ball cuts, line cuts, top serrations etc)

 

[gdawg]

It has been a few years since I was in his shop but it seems to me he had specimens in hand but that was some time ago. Even on a build to order basis his guns represent real value. If you are in his price range anyway I doubt there are regular production guns that would exceed his ability to produce a quality 1911.

Take Care

Bob

I know a few other member who regularly send in their pistols for various refinements (triggers etc) and are always very impressed.

 

[nbmonte]

Thanks for all the reply’s, there’s been a few things mentioned I hadn’t considered.

What are you hoping will change by upgrading from your SAM.

This is a fair question and something I hadn’t really thought about. I don’t think much will change aside from the fact I’ll have a nicer 1911 in 9mm. I’d like a 9mm 1911 for classic, I’ve read the arguments against the idea of 9mm, but for me,since I don’t currently reload pistol rounds 9mm makes sense.

I bought the SAM in .45 because I wanted a 1911 in .45 and didn’t want to spend much to try it out. Given my limited experience with 1911s the SAM seems pretty decent, but for my next one I want something nicer, vanity as someone called it. I’ve wasted too much money on cheap guns/tools/stuff. I’m trying to buy quality things that I won’t need/want to replace in the near future. I should’ve bought the Trojan 2years ago, but rifles were more important at the time.

Dlask was my first thought, I’ve read good things about his guns and I like the idea of buying Canadian. But there’s not a lot of info on Dlask handgun builds here on cgn(or at least I couldn’t find much when I searched) and I’ve been told Joe doesn’t build them all anymore, and they may not be as good if one of his employees does it.

In the end I’ve narrowed down my choices, a DW Valor ($2200cad plus tax), a Les Baer premier II($3100cad plus tax from one of the sponsors or I might look at importing one, they go for $1800ish USD) or a Dlask build. There’s no wrong answer, I just need to decide if I really want one.

 

[Protege]

Those should both be very nice. Curious to get your impressions of the differences. I've heard all DW are built to a similar standard and differ only wrt sights, finishes, milling (ball cuts, line cuts, top serrations etc)

I am thinking of doing a comparison test. I still have both of my Citadels in 9mm and .45 and also a Springfield Range Officer in .45. The problem I'm having is that all of my current 1911s are still unfired except factory testing. So, I might just do a fit and quality test and forget the performance test as I'm planning to sell both Citadels and Springfield unfired. Also, stupid me, I just found out about Les Baer for as low as $2300-ish brand new after I placed an order for my Valor. Sucks, but that's the way it is.

 

[Protege]

In the end I’ve narrowed down my choices, a DW Valor ($2200cad plus tax), a Les Baer premier II($3100cad plus tax from one of the sponsors or I might look at importing one, they go for $1800ish USD) or a Dlask build. There’s no wrong answer, I just need to decide if I really want one.

You can get a Les Baer for far cheaper. A Concept is in the $2300 range. Premier in the $2550 range.

 

[nbmonte]

You can get a Les Baer for far cheaper. A Concept is in the $2300 range. Premier in the $2550 range.

Any idea where? Wanstalls quoted $3100 for a premier in 9mm. .45 is cheaper for some reason, they charge a premium for 9mm, likely cause they make fewer. I’ve got a few US stores to call this week, not sure I want to go that route though.

 

[Protege]

Any idea where? Wanstalls quoted $3100 for a premier in 9mm. .45 is cheaper for some reason, they charge a premium for 9mm, likely cause they make fewer. I’ve got a few US stores to call this week, not sure I want to go that route though.

Wanstalls has separate premium website called wanstallscustomdotcom. That's where i ordered my pointman. It will take a while of course, as with all premium orders, but you know for sure they will get the ball rolling and contact the necessary people. Also the prices are in front of you so you can compare to your heart's delight unlike other sponsors on here. So far the cheapest les baer 9mm is in the $3000 range. The prices i was quoting were .45acp.

 

[ekp]

After reading all these conversations, just wondering, why Dan Wesson is not popular in IPSC/USPSA community ? Is it too nice, to heavy, too expensive ?

 

[TT1900]

Any idea where? Wanstalls quoted $3100 for a premier in 9mm. .45 is cheaper for some reason, they charge a premium for 9mm, likely cause they make fewer. I’ve got a few US stores to call this week, not sure I want to go that route though.

Yep. Unfortunately LB charges a $500-$600 premium for the 9mm which makes the choice much harder. Honestly, for IPSC style shooting extreme accuracy isn’t required as the target is massive; any gun that holds a couple of inches @ 25m will work if you’re comfortable with it. In that light both guns would probably serve equally well so the real question is are you willing to lose 4000rds of ammo for the LB name?

 

[alpining]

This is a fair question and something I hadn’t really thought about. I don’t think much will change aside from the fact I’ll have a nicer 1911 in 9mm. I’d like a 9mm 1911 for classic, I’ve read the arguments against the idea of 9mm, but for me,since I don’t currently reload pistol rounds 9mm makes sense.

I bought the SAM in .45 because I wanted a 1911 in .45 and didn’t want to spend much to try it out. Given my limited experience with 1911s the SAM seems pretty decent, but for my next one I want something nicer, vanity as someone called it. I’ve wasted too much money on cheap guns/tools/stuff. I’m trying to buy quality things that I won’t need/want to replace in the near future. I should’ve bought the Trojan 2years ago, but rifles were more important at the time.

I don't think it has been mentioned, and just in case it hasn't occurred to you: With 9mm, you'll be stuck shooting minor power factor. This is a pretty significant compromise if you want to be competitive in IPSC (you might consider a .40 for this reason). If you just want to have fun, then it's a non issue.

I have no problem with gun vanity - It helps bring down prices on the used market!

Now that you've narrowed down your choices, consider the availability of local warranty and service opportunities.

 

[nbmonte]

I don't think it has been mentioned, and just in case it hasn't occurred to you: With 9mm, you'll be stuck shooting minor power factor. This is a pretty significant compromise if you want to be competitive in IPSC (you might consider a .40 for this reason). If you just want to have fun, then it's a non issue.

I have no problem with gun vanity - It helps bring down prices on the used market!

Now that you've narrowed down your choices, consider the availability of local warranty and service opportunities.

I’ve accepted I’ll never be truly competitive at IPSC, I have too many other shooting interests. It’s purely for fun.

I want a pistol that brings a smile to my face. My SAM’s ok, I enjoy shooting it, but it’s nothing special. Same with my shadow, it’s a great gun for production, I shoot it reasonably well, but it’s just a gun. Maybe I’m overthinking it and expect too much from my next pistol. But I know with my rifles, when I upgraded to a Defiance from my rem 700 there was a big difference in my enjoyment of the rifle. It’s just so much smoother to operate. It’s a joy to shoot, and I don’t think it’s all vanity. Quality guns are a pleasure to use and I hope I get that with my next pistol.

Thanks for all the reply’s, my wife gets that look in her eyes when I start talking about the merits of different guns.

 

[snooze98k]

Don't take 9mm as a 'compromise'!
Different tactics are required for either but minor tends to reign superior as most can train cheaper (and thus more)
When your scoring 80% alpha's, time becomes more competitive and some scenario's lead to a disadvantage to major with extra standing reloads or creative stage tactics

 

[sevoman]

I don't think it has been mentioned, and just in case it hasn't occurred to you: With 9mm, you'll be stuck shooting minor power factor. This is a pretty significant compromise if you want to be competitive in IPSC (you might consider a .40 for this reason). If you just want to have fun, then it's a non issue.

I have no problem with gun vanity - It helps bring down prices on the used market!

Now that you've narrowed down your choices, consider the availability of local warranty and service opportunities.

If you were using a 1911 such as this in IPSC,you would most likely be shooting in Classic division.Most of the top shooters in Classic are shooting 9mil at minor PF as opposed to 40 or 45 so you are certainly not at a disadvantage.This is obviously not the case for standard division,but then again a single stack 1911 wont be competitive in standard.

 

[SIH]

The Dan Wesson Valor is an impeccable 1911. In a commander-sized pistol, the Dan Wesson Guardian. They should fall in your price range. These are absolutely top shelf 1911s for very reasonable prices. You can get half as much gun for twice as much money. CZ (which owns DW), nailed it with these 1911s.

I have an STI Trojan. Great gun. I bought mine in .38 Super and had two additional barrels made for it by Bar-Sto: 9mm Luger (aka by many names) and 9x23. I had a full action job and a couple other things done on the Trojan. The Trojan is a well-made, quality gun. Out of the box, go with DW; there is no need to do anything to it.