Stock damage from overtightened screws, what would you do?

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Pneumaniatic

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Not sure if this is the most appropriate forum to post this question - but here it goes.

Looking for some advice on how to fix a recently acquired CZ 455 with a stock that has had the wood compressed by seriously overtightening the stock screws. As you can see in the pics, the front stock screw was tightened so much at some point that it has bent the trigger guard and compressed the wood at an angle. The rear stock screw had the same treatment and the wood is compressed there as well, although it is less noticeable with the trigger guard in place. I've straightened out the trigger guard somewhat but it's still going to bend if I tighten the screws and don't fix the stock underneath. The bent TG / compressed wood bugs me and I'd like to have it fixed.

I'm wondering if anyone has dealt with similar issues or how you'd proceed in this case. I'm thinking maybe filling in the area with bedding compound but I've never used the stuff and never had a rifle bedded before. Would appreciate any advice.

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In general woodworking steam is used to help wood fibers spring back to their original position. Don't know if I would recommend for a stock.
 
A shim, maybe a notched washer of the right size and thickness would be an easy try.

The one at the rear closer to the grip, I might be tempted to carve out the step at the back and flatten that area out then shim the entire area to spread the force across a larger area, but it's hard to say for sure without checking out the fit in person.

If you do try epoxy, I would coat the metal part with a release agent of your choice, and also apply release agent where you don't want the epoxy to squeeze out and stick to.... then put some epoxy where you need it and then tape the part in place with some electrical tape and possibly some small clamps or other creative solutions to hold the part right where you want it. You could also try using the mounting bolts to do this and just make sure the threads have release agent on them so they don't get stuck.... :)

It can be messy and awkward if you don't think a few steps ahead and it's your first go.

Shim looks lie the easiest method and once you get the shim shaped and just right you could lightly bond it to either the stock or the metal part so that it doesn't fall out and get lost in a future disassembly.

Looking at the picture again, I'd definitely remove the rear portion of wood behind the compressed area and then bend the steel trigger guard so that it sits a bit further back in the inlet and gets a bit more wood underneath for support.
 
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Mike_K said:
In general woodworking steam is used to help wood fibers spring back to their original position. Don't know if I would recommend for a stock.
Click to expand...

It's amazing how well steam works for lifting wood fibre and raising dents...... just the other day I "steamed" out a dent I found on a Bass Ukulele when I was changing the strings.... didn't quite get it all out but way better and I will probably give it another go down the road to see if I can lift it a bit more.

I like using a hot air gun and wet rags, sometimes I will pierce the finish with small needles to help the water get a bit deeper into the wood, it just depends on the finish and the damage.... I would not try steaming in this case though as it's not likely to be strong enough and since the area is not visible a shim is an easier and better repair in my opinion.
 
With the amount of stock wood crush that you show, you might want to check that the action screws are not bottoming out in whatever they thread in to - also might want to investigate "pillars" to go around those action screws - metal-to-metal-to-metal instead of relying both on wood for tension, and a subsequent user to read and follow torque specs.
 
OP - looking at your 4th (last) picture - something wonky there - appears that inlet has been cut twice (?) - is a distinct ledge in bottom of that inlet (?) - then as if a plug was installed in that action screw hole and a new hole drilled - I do not know, but would doubt that would be a factory error? Maybe action had previously moved - loose action screws pounded out original action screw hole (?) - is "fixed" now by making UBER tight screws (?) - you may want to check out what happened in the inletting for the action, on the other side of that wood stock?
 
Can-down said:
A shim, maybe a notched washer of the right size and thickness would be an easy try.

The one at the rear closer to the grip, I might be tempted to carve out the step at the back and flatten that area out then shim the entire area to spread the force across a larger area, but it's hard to say for sure without checking out the fit in person.

If you do try epoxy, I would coat the metal part with a release agent of your choice, and also apply release agent where you don't want the epoxy to squeeze out and stick to.... then put some epoxy where you need it and then tape the part in place with some electrical tape and possibly some small clamps or other creative solutions to hold the part right where you want it. You could also try using the mounting bolts to do this and just make sure the threads have release agent on them so they don't get stuck.... :)

It can be messy and awkward if you don't think a few steps ahead and it's your first go.

Shim looks lie the easiest method and once you get the shim shaped and just right you could lightly bond it to either the stock or the metal part so that it doesn't fall out and get lost in a future disassembly.

Looking at the picture again, I'd definitely remove the rear portion of wood behind the compressed area and then bend the steel trigger guard so that it sits a bit further back in the inlet and gets a bit more wood underneath for support.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I'll be sure to use lots of masking tape. Wonder if a shim and JB weld will help fill in volume and keep things more manageable / less messy.
 
I am currently fussing to fit a stock to a Swede 1894 carbine action - discovering the hard way that an alteration to the footprint of the trigger guard unit, also changes stuff for the action bedding - can not just shift bottom part forward or backward as desired - that also moves the action on top - so all has to fit together. I think old school stock making was all based on angle and positioning of the action screws - both upper and lower parts HAVE to fit to that. And, of course that presumes that the action screws being used are straight and not bent by previous abuse. We used to have an acronym at the mine that I used to work at, for some damage done to things - BER - Beyond Economical Repair - and I have discovered since retirement there is also just plain "Beyond Repair" - at any cost - giving the tools and skills that I have available.
 
Potashminer said:
OP - looking at your 4th (last) picture - something wonky there - appears that inlet has been cut twice (?) - is a distinct ledge in bottom of that inlet (?) - then as if a plug was installed in that action screw hole and a new hole drilled - I do not know, but would doubt that would be a factory error? Maybe action had previously moved - loose action screws pounded out original action screw hole (?) - is "fixed" now by making UBER tight screws (?) - you may want to check out what happened in the inletting for the action, on the other side of that wood stock?
Click to expand...

Yea I'm amazed the rear action screw didn't bind the bolt. Not sure if the front bottomed out at some point. The trigger guard is 2-piece and I think that ledge at the bottom of the inlet is from a prior owner flipping one of them... it looks like this

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When I took the stock down, the forked end was under the rear action screw, and left a rectangular-ish ledge at the bottom too. There is some wood compression under the action too, but it doesn't seem as bad and I didn't see a plug.
 
OP, use an epoxy of whichever type you can be comfortable with to fill the compressed areas.

There are methods that use a hot iron pressed onto a wet cloth to form steam and raise the compression, but I wouldn't go that route in this case.

Once those wood fibers are broken or bent, they can't be brought back to original strength.

JB steel weld will work but IT'S BLACK when it dries, which is ok as long as it's covered.

Just about every epoxy out there will give you color issues, which in your case are mostly hidden and if you're OK with that fine.

Using the same epoxy as used for fibreglass isn't a bad idea as it can be mixed with appropriate sawdust to a very thick consistency, while mixing the epoxy ingredients. The sawdust will keep the color very close to that of the wood after it all hardens in place and provide some strength.

Your rifle is an excellent piece of workmanship and capable of very good to excellent accuracy if you do your part and find the ammunition it shoots best.

That being said, every one that I've owned has needed to be bedded to maintain consitent accuracy.

Presently, the only CZ rifle I own is a CZ452-2E chambered for the 22 WMR.

When I bought the rifle new, it shot well but the accuracy soon deteriorated.

Some extra torque on the screws helped but I would have had to tighten them much tighter, to the point of doing the damage you show in your pics to get the tension needed, MAYBE.

I ended up bedding the action as well as the first six inches (12cm) of the underside of the barrel.

I used a playing card as a shim under the fore stock at the tip, between the barrel and stock.

I also installed a set of pillars in all three locations a screw is used and connected to the action.

The rifle now shoots consistently with three different types of ammunition, or good enough for a bunny head out to 125 meters.

I used pillars, made from aluminum, but you don't really need them, if you just clamp your action into the stock while the epoxy hardens and fill the screw holes with epoxy as well. The epoxy hardens enough to make acceptable pillars.

The pillars allow enough tension to properly tighten the receiver into the stock, without creating any damage.

That's very likely the reason the previous owner over tightened those screws and it's actually quite common.

I fixed one of those for a friend over the weekend with the very same issue you are experiencing.

We shot that rifle this morning, before it got to hot. He's happy as it's shooting as well now as when he first bought it several years ago.

Another thing with these rifles is that they do benefit from proper bore cleaning when looking for the best accuracy. Same goes for just about any "good" 22 rimfire.
 
Bed it as suggested - don't worry about the color - you won't see the bedding on that particular part.

There is not a whole lot of wood there to begin with, pillar bedding it is a very solid option, don't bed it and go back and do pillars. do it all at once.

That does not look like a very comfortable trigger guard - since you have to "fix" this one, now would be a good time to consider an aftermarket upgrade.
 
Straighten the guard. Clean the finish off the wood. Apply release agent to the steel, including the screws. Bed the front and rear - JB Weld will work fine. Your nearest hardware store or Canadian Tire will likely have it. Just pull up the screws tight enough to hold things together while the bedding cures.

If it were my rifle, I'd pillar bed it. This is complicated because the holes for the screws in the stock are notches, not clear holes. The pillars would have to be machined to fit, flattened on the inlet side. Pillar bedding eliminates wood crush. Just building up the crushed area with epoxy won't prevent more crushing if too much torque is applied.
 
To follow on what Tiriaq wrote - I have installed a few Mauser "pillars" - they can be made from nominal 1/8" NPT pipe nipples - I do not recall the OD - perhaps had to drill out the wood stock to 7/16" or 1/2" or so. I drilled the ID of the pipe nipple with circa 5/16" drill bit for 1/4" diameter action screws - then wrapped tape around the action screw so it was snug but sliding fit into the pillar - rough up the outer surface of that pipe to give epoxy something to grab to - goop epoxy into the hole in the stock, then work that pipe in with good epoxy contact to pipe and to wood - then thread in those wrapped screws and loosely (light finger tip torque with driver tool) align action, guard and pillar(s). When epoxy sets up, can remove those screws and remove the tape - the screws will be dead centre in the pipes - air gap all around - neither those "pillars", nor the action screws are part of the recoil management system - just to hold top action and lower metal together/apart - at the point that the wood stock is getting a slight crush with metal-to-metal-to-metal contact - action-to-pillar-to guard. Again, that assumes / presumes that the action screws that you are using are dead straight - from shank through threads.
 
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone, really appreciate it. I looked up the process for installing pillars - looks like Iraqveteran8888 on youtube has a video where they pillar bedded a 455. Don't think I have the tools to do a good job / not butcher it at the moment. Since mine is a 455 Mannlicher stock, I'd want to practice it a few times too before working on that stock.

Is there any harm to bedding the trigger guard like Tiriaq suggested and then pillar bedding it down the road if further compression becomes an issue?
 
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