Stock Duplication

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cgriffin

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Good day all. This post is a bit of a fact finding mission. I am interested to get into stock duplication. I have been restoring firearms for many years and for just as many years I have observed a bit of a gap in the industry for stock duplication. I have had quite a few stocks duplicated with varying satisfaction. Logistically it can be a long process to get a stock back, and sometimes, the quality and craftmanship is lacking. I am not saying that there are no talented stock duplicators out there, and I certainly do not want this thread to turn into a war about trashing folks who are currently in the duplication business. I am looking for feedback from people who are in the firearm community, and request feedback for what demand is out there. I have done considerable research on equipment selection, blank costs (in relation to grades, species of wood etc) and am very much aware of how to produce a quality custom stock and all the resources required to achieve it.
My questions are as follows: How much demand is there for duplication services here in Canada, and if so, how much and at what level? There are excellent Custom duplicators in both Canada and the US, but many are in the United States, and that causes logistical challenges. It is beneficial to send the entire rifle to the Craftsman, so final check out for fitment can be made. This is a problem when dealing with a US outfit. The cost for just the blank material is very high, and that leads me to ask if there are many people willing to spend that kind of money for a custom wood stock, especially with the top quality synthetics available? I would be looking at providing a service that provides drop in fitment, and not a product that requires further fine tuning and inletting. Depending on the client's wants, I will offer final fitment, checkering, bedding and finishing, but all of that is very time consuming ,and a premium cost is associated with that service. Do you think this is something that many firearm owners are willing to invest in? top notch duplicating equipment is quite pricey, and worth every penny, but only if it can be utilized. My primary motivator to get into stock building is the great satisfaction I receive with projects ,and the finished product, but this will not be approached as a hobby. This venture would have to be a profitable and sustainable business. The added bonus to this business will be the fact I very much enjoy doing it, it just has to be feasible, and that is where all of you come in. Please let me know your thoughts on how much appetite is out there for quality finished product, stock duplication.
 
Here is my opinion.
I like the contrast that wood provides on a traditional rifle. The SKS and the old camp carbines come to mind.
Modern sporting rifles, I like them in synthetic.

But traditional stocked rifles in synthetic are ugly. I will never buy a Ruger PC carbine because of that. Make some wood stocks for that gun with your duplicator and I might hit you up.
 
there a couple doing that already that I know of , I have done some , but not for years, on a commercial basis.
I find that the average fellow wants a new stock , but they don't have a clue about cost .
I know one fellow doing semi finished, cast is very reasonable, but still a lot left to do.
Profit???????????????????
 
I imagine finding a niche like making Lee Speed style stocks for Lee Enfields, full wood for milsurps, stalking style stocks to replace ugly 70s ones and poor factory ones on mausers might be a good niche
 
there are actually a 1/2 dozen or more stock duplicators in canada, at least one with some very impressive computerized duplicating which blew my mind seeing that set up..... The reason you don't see them in the marketplace is the advertising fees. Each site and magazine has thier own advertising structure but all these guys work by word of mouth.
Talking about thier businesses on sites like this one generally ends up with a banned account.
iirc it's 1500 a year (approx) to have a basic dealer account here in this site and if non paid businesses or individuals troll the site looking for customers..... that will get nipped in the bud awfully fast LOL

My advice is if you really want the headaches associated with having a business servicing the firearms community..... just do it and start booking tables at gunshows and a big one....send your business cards to every gunshop in the country and don't discuss your work on forums like this one.
Personally I can make rifle stocks and can duplicate any stock in composite material but I won't be operating as a stock maker under this current political regime. It just does not make good financial sense to try and service a dying industry. Biggest hinderances are Trudeau and steep advertising prices LOL
 
cgriffin said:
Good day all. This post is a bit of a fact finding mission. I am interested to get into stock duplication. I have been restoring firearms for many years and for just as many years I have observed a bit of a gap in the industry for stock duplication. I have had quite a few stocks duplicated with varying satisfaction. Logistically it can be a long process to get a stock back, and sometimes, the quality and craftmanship is lacking. I am not saying that there are no talented stock duplicators out there, and I certainly do not want this thread to turn into a war about trashing folks who are currently in the duplication business. I am looking for feedback from people who are in the firearm community, and request feedback for what demand is out there. I have done considerable research on equipment selection, blank costs (in relation to grades, species of wood etc) and am very much aware of how to produce a quality custom stock and all the resources required to achieve it.
My questions are as follows: How much demand is there for duplication services here in Canada, and if so, how much and at what level? There are excellent Custom duplicators in both Canada and the US, but many are in the United States, and that causes logistical challenges. It is beneficial to send the entire rifle to the Craftsman, so final check out for fitment can be made. This is a problem when dealing with a US outfit. The cost for just the blank material is very high, and that leads me to ask if there are many people willing to spend that kind of money for a custom wood stock, especially with the top quality synthetics available? I would be looking at providing a service that provides drop in fitment, and not a product that requires further fine tuning and inletting. Depending on the client's wants, I will offer final fitment, checkering, bedding and finishing, but all of that is very time consuming ,and a premium cost is associated with that service. Do you think this is something that many firearm owners are willing to invest in? top notch duplicating equipment is quite pricey, and worth every penny, but only if it can be utilized. My primary motivator to get into stock building is the great satisfaction I receive with projects ,and the finished product, but this will not be approached as a hobby. This venture would have to be a profitable and sustainable business. The added bonus to this business will be the fact I very much enjoy doing it, it just has to be feasible, and that is where all of you come in. Please let me know your thoughts on how much appetite is out there for quality finished product, stock duplication.
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Im sure there will always be guys that want a beautiful wood stocked rifle, with that being said I bet the call for them is low and declining......

Try to find a decent English Walnut Blank for a wood stock and they cost as much as a new rifle in some cases, anything where I would want to spend the money on to use is in the $1000-2000cdn price range for the blank alone, and no guarantees its not going to be flawed on the inside when you start whittling away at it.

Then the labour to duplicate, checkering, inletting, finishing, I can't imagine that cost being any less than about $5000.......so were at roughly 5-7000, and we haven't even talked about the rest of the rifle

Let me know if Im way out of line in my cost estimates but not a lot of folks able to wanting to spend that amount on a piece of wood you're scared to take hunting !!!


I don't mean to sound negative as I love a wood stocked rifle.....I have been looking for a piece of wood to duplicate a Winchester model 70 Featherweight stock for a custom build.
 
I think , to start, I would do hardwood/ Beech military type stocks for bolt action rifles, 98k mauser, 22 rifles etc
That way, you get in the game with plain stocks
 
Good feedback guys. I don’t see Weatherby’s feedback as negative at all, realistic probably. In a couple years I’m lined out to retire, but for now just a hobbiest snooping around. Thanks again.
 
cgriffin said:
Good feedback guys. I don’t see Weatherby’s feedback as negative at all, realistic probably. In a couple years I’m lined out to retire, but for now just a hobbiest snooping around. Thanks again.
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I think the guys in this are old farts looking for a hobby. Monetary concerns are secondary. The bad news is, they don't usually hang around long.

Grizz
 
45ACPKING said:
there are actually a 1/2 dozen or more stock duplicators in canada, at least one with some very impressive computerized duplicating which blew my mind seeing that set up..... The reason you don't see them in the marketplace is the advertising fees. Each site and magazine has thier own advertising structure but all these guys work by word of mouth.
Talking about thier businesses on sites like this one generally ends up with a banned account.
iirc it's 1500 a year (approx) to have a basic dealer account here in this site and if non paid businesses or individuals troll the site looking for customers..... that will get nipped in the bud awfully fast LOL

My advice is if you really want the headaches associated with having a business servicing the firearms community..... just do it and start booking tables at gunshows and a big one....send your business cards to every gunshop in the country and don't discuss your work on forums like this one.
Personally I can make rifle stocks and can duplicate any stock in composite material but I won't be operating as a stock maker under this current political regime. It just does not make good financial sense to try and service a dying industry. Biggest hinderances are Trudeau and steep advertising prices LOL
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This guy speeks facts. Still can't get on EE after undercutting the Buissnes friends
 
I know a few guys that have old shotguns laying in the safe for years. Old stevens 820b my self. All needing stocks. Most of the guys would be happy with any sort of reasonable quality wood. Maple. Oak. We could sand and finish. We just need a block of wood roughly cut out. Able to bolt on. I have no stock for my 820. One day I might go out to the shop and see what I can make. Hard to duplicate something I don’t have. How cheep could a guy produce rough finished stocks? I would think guys would like to get some of these guns out and shooting. When I think about the numbers it would have to be around the 200 mark. Not going to put 300 into a 300-400 gun. Is that even possible to produce for 200$ and make money on it ???
 
I had a few people message for costs to reproduce a stock in composite.
so , 1st things 1st, I'm not making stocks or accepting any work but I think I can safely explain the costs. Hopefully the mods will allow it.
Fabric options are Aramid , Carbon Fiber and fiberglass. Most stocks would use the 2nd two ingredients but aramid has been requested the odd time.
Then resins of the very high temperature kind ..... not giving out my trade secrets hehehe
And then the molds..... duplicating a stock requires a custom one off mold which I don't think any other stock maker out there offers.
Their processes don't allow for it.
So this obviously adds cost to the project.
Ballparking an average rifle stock duplication from prep to finish with adornments like butt pads, sling or bipod hardware.... all that stuff adds up
So realistically in composite, a duplication would cost similar to stocks from McMillan and others...... 550 to 1000 , maybe more depending on the item being duplicated.

I think a finished duplicated quality walnut hunting rifle stock runs about 600? and up??? That's what I was quoted a few years ago.
 
45ACPKING said:
My advice is if you really want the headaches associated with having a business servicing the firearms community..... just do it and start booking tables at gunshows and a big one....send your business cards to every gunshop in the country and don't discuss your work on forums like this one.
Click to expand...

You are right. There are several fellows who operate different gun services here in Canada that are quite busy but do so without any advertising. Word of mouth here is quite effective and it's all based on you reputation. You won't have to advertise here on CGN, but they will certainly talk about you here and do your ads for you.
 
I had a shotgun stock wrecked a few weeks ago in a freak accident while having some work done on it. The fellow got on the horn to find a suitable replacement in the same grade of wood it came with (Perazzi's SC2 grade). Just the finished stock was $7000, no forend or even fitted to the gun. I found a used take-off from the same model in the same grade of wood for $750 US. By the time he paid exchange, duties etc and agreed to pay for the refinishing etc it cost him over $1500.
 
conor_90 said:
I imagine finding a niche like making Lee Speed style stocks for Lee Enfields, full wood for milsurps, stalking style stocks to replace ugly 70s ones and poor factory ones on mausers might be a good niche
Click to expand...
Id be in for a few, I’ve found nice stocks for mausers hard to come by
 
Every high end custom gunmaker that works in wood in Canada will own or know someone who owns a pantograph. There is a fellow in Sask. that bought Don Robinsons equipment, I don’t know his name.

You would be better off learning how to make composite stocks, this seems to be a growing market.
 
There is a world of difference between a precision stock duplication by a skilled craftsman, and a kind-of, sort-of looks like semi-inlet with no relationship to the centreline or other feature of the original.
Working with the latter is an exercise in frustration.
Many stock duplicators in Canada have failed to maintain quality, and many have gone out of business.
It is a tough gig to make good wages, and many hobbiests are too cheap to pay for good work.
You would have a long, slow road to make a real business out of stock duplication, despite the many possible items to produce.
You also cannot ignore the health risks of generating huge volumes of wood dust. It is not easy to totally control dust.
I am sorry to be negative, but it is my honest appraisal of the business prospects of stock duplication.
 
the mechanic down the road charges $120. an hour to replace parts. how many hours does it take you to duplicate a stock?
Is your duplicator computerized? how much set up time?
You need to search who is already making duplicates in Canada and whether it is possible to match their price and quality.
 
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