Stock making?

[BigUglyMan]

Forstner bits can be very useful in removing wood in a controlled manner.
I've had good service from the barrel channel scrapers that Brownells sells.

I always thought that a Forstner bit would be good for locating the corners of the mag box location freeing you up to cut out the box and then begin fitting the action.

The router option just screams "hack" to me. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

 

[mooncoon]

Below are two photos of a jig for drilling long stock holes. Significant if you want to make a butt stock for a 22 with a tube magazine in the butt. What I hope you can see is that the future stock is mounted on a piece of channel iron with 3 pieces of angle iron bolted to it. There is a point or center in the angle iron on the left hand side and that goes into the mark of where you want the hole to come out. The wood is clamped to the channel iron and an extended drill runs through 2 angle iron guides and lines up with where you want the hole to start. Obviously, the drill also lines up with the point where the hole comes out. Important that the drill bit is not sharp pointed because a long tapered point is more likely to wander with the grain of the wood. This particular piece of wood was for a Spencer rifle and a 1" hole starts on one side of the front end and comes out centered in the butt end. I drilled a 3/8 pilot hole first followed by a piloted 1" hole using a home made fly swatter type drill bit

cheers mooncoon

 

[Mauser98]

Forstner bits are excellent for hogging out wood from the mag well when inletting a blank. I didn’t drill all the way through to avoid fear-out on the top of the blank. After drilling, the inletting is cleaned up using chisels and gouges.

 

[sean69]

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT CLAMP?

That is soo cool....

 

[mooncoon]

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT CLAMP?

That is soo cool....

Quite a few years ago a local business was getting out of woodworking, I think (can't remember it was at least 30 years ago). I happened to stop in and the clamp was one of the second hand items for sale. It comes in handy at times

cheers mooncoon

 

[sean69]

Quite a few years ago a local business was getting out of woodworking, I think (can't remember it was at least 30 years ago). I happened to stop in and the clamp was one of the second hand items for sale. It comes in handy at times

cheers mooncoon

Any makers mark on it - I tried a google image search looking for one but didn't find anything - I'd love to try and track one down...

 

[sean69]

I always thought that a Forstner bit would be good for locating the corners of the mag box location freeing you up to cut out the box and then begin fitting the action.

The router option just screams "hack" to me. Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

depends on your definition of "doing it right" - I prefer to think of right as "as quickly and accurately as possible with the tools at hand - and enjoy doing it"

A forstner bit is designed to make relatively deep smooth sided holes - it also happens to be able to cut on edges & weird angles. As you can see from Mauser98's post - it does work (though I would use a fence as well) I have used the method before as well, it does work. But the forstner method 'is' the hack. (fun fact, the forstner but was invented by a gunsmith!)

Using a router & suitable bit (a spiral upcut, being specifically designed for this) will give you a more accurate mortise with very little or no cleanup required:

(done with a 3hp variable speed router, 1/2" spiral upcut bit and several guides)

A router will require more experience (speeds/feeds/cutter selection) and setup but less time actually machining.


Also - small side note - drill press columns flex, there is a lot of force required to sink that forstner, the mortice is probably not straight. That matters exactly zero in this case (when you are going to clean it up with a chisel anyway) but when you need to do something deeper or more accurate. keep that in mind.

 

[B_noser]

I daresay that example is sitting on top of one of your guides. Very nice looking setup from what I can see. A few detail pics would be appreciated.

 

[TrxR]

Any of you ever use a mortising bit? Ive got some of them around as well.

 

[sean69]

Any of you ever use a mortising bit? I've got some of them around as well.

like a straight fluted bit? I have used them (though IMO if you use it to cut a mortise then "it's a mortising bit" ) - they work, but require more lighter cuts.

A spiral type bit will excel at plunging cuts - but there is the cost to consider. they are not cheap. the other benefit of a spiral bit is that you can get them in up, down or compression cuts, meaning where they eject the chips and where they will leave tearout.

up cut, smooth bottom, rough top - chips are directed up
down cut, smooth top, rough bottom - chips are directed down
compression, smooth top & bottom- chips are directed "freaking everywhere"

If you are working with a router table, the directions are reversed..... or think of "up" as towards the router and "down" away from the router.

I use HSS upcuts I think my 1/2" bit was $80 or so .... you can expect a compression to cost double that!! and carbide ~ double that again!

A spiral bit (IMO) is the better choice for the job (especially in these hardwoods), being able to get more of the tool into the work (less vibration, more control) and leave cleaner edges but they are really expensive.

A flat/straight bit is easier on the wallet and you can sharpen them up WAY easier but I find them less controllable - that and more cuts are required.

 

[sean69]

I daresay that example is sitting on top of one of your guides. Very nice looking setup from what I can see. A few detail pics would be appreciated.

There should be several pics of the jig itself in the "something I been working on thread" - that is jig MkII ... since retired.
MkIII is in the works and relies on a single indexing guide on the inboard of the jig & the use of a couple bench hook type clamps to secure the work. (and made of steel )

 

[mooncoon]

WHERE DID YOU GET THAT CLAMP?

That is soo cool....

Written on the clamp is Jorgensen and 176 and what looks like 6" but 8" would make more sense. The top curl of the 6 comes close to touching the bottom loop but does not. I did a search for them and the model 176 is no longer made but there was a lot of 3 that sold recently on Ebay, for $50. I think Ebay would be your best bet and just keep checking for Jorgensen 176 clamps. It does not surprise me too much that the clamp is no longer made in that I have had it for at least 30 years

cheers mooncoon

 

[sean69]

Written on the clamp is Jorgensen and 176 and what looks like 6" but 8" would make more sense. The top curl of the 6 comes close to touching the bottom loop but does not. I did a search for them and the model 176 is no longer made but there was a lot of 3 that sold recently on Ebay, for $50. I think Ebay would be your best bet and just keep checking for Jorgensen 176 clamps. It does not surprise me too much that the clamp is no longer made in that I have had it for at least 30 years

cheers mooncoon

Yea - I see them now, there are a few places still stocking them - $45 - $55 USD ... kinda steep for a clamp. Will have to keep an eye out at barn/yard sales I suppose

I just think it's cool as hell!

 

[marshall]

I have bought 1/2" carbide spiral router bits and they where under $100.oo , and they are not china crap, the long ones I have seen have all been sq. ends, But you can have anything made if willing to pay for it.
I don't think HHS router bits are buy, unless you like grinding bits, Hi speed is hard on them
good point on cheap sand paper, thou I do use lots of it, for rough work.
There are drill press and drill presses, my old one has no deflection, a fairly new m.i.c HD was bad. I don't think any thing in my shop is younger than 50yrs, other than all the routers and cordless drills, wrong, just got new table saw.
Years ago when I was into MoPar cars, found that the hood torsion bars are super good steel for making tools , did a lot of turning and use lots of it.

 

[sean69]

I have bought 1/2" carbide spiral router bits and they where under $100.oo , and they are not china crap, the long ones I have seen have all been sq. ends, But you can have anything made if willing to pay for it.

Well, maybe my numbers were a little gloomy there - LeeValley is listing a 1/2" carbide bit at $91 - still pricy.
You can also take a peek for "CNC" router bits - there are ball nosed bits, taper bits, all sorts of stuff available....

I don't think HHS router bits are buy, unless you like grinding bits, Hi speed is hard on them

any bit will eventually need to be sharpened, watching speeds and feed will keep it sharp longer, but I think I'm preaching to the choir here

good point on cheap sand paper, thou I do use lots of it, for rough work.

It was like the heavens opened up! I threw out all my crappy tire stuff.

There are drill press and drill presses, my old one has no deflection, a fairly new m.i.c HD was bad. I don't think any thing in my shop is younger than 50yrs, other than all the routers and cordless drills, wrong, just got new table saw.

True, in most cases no one is going to notice the error deflection can cause as you are generally not drilling anything deeper than an inch or so making the error negligible. A quality tool making it less apparent. IME the problem starts when you are trying to drill a deep hole, say 9" through end grain for a fore end piece. The amount of force required is substantial & you have so much of the column between your head & table... I can actually see the table moving. I've had to crib up the table to keep it stable.
Granted it's kind of silly to be complaining about that seeing as drill presses are not really designed for deep drilling anyway! Mooncoon's setup is much better suited to drilling a deep hole accurately.

 

[trevj]

depends on your definition of "doing it right" - I prefer to think of right as "as quickly and accurately as possible with the tools at hand - and enjoy doing it"

A forstner bit is designed to make relatively deep smooth sided holes - it also happens to be able to cut on edges & weird angles. As you can see from Mauser98's post - it does work (though I would use a fence as well) I have used the method before as well, it does work. But the forstner method 'is' the hack. (fun fact, the forstner but was invented by a gunsmith!)

Using a router & suitable bit (a spiral upcut, being specifically designed for this) will give you a more accurate mortise with very little or no cleanup required:

(done with a 3hp variable speed router, 1/2" spiral upcut bit and several guides)

A router will require more experience (speeds/feeds/cutter selection) and setup but less time actually machining.


Also - small side note - drill press columns flex, there is a lot of force required to sink that forstner, the mortice is probably not straight. That matters exactly zero in this case (when you are going to clean it up with a chisel anyway) but when you need to do something deeper or more accurate. keep that in mind.

I am more inclined to this than to B.U.M.'s version.

It takes, as some of the ex-Army guys were fond of saying, a special kind of stupid to be cold, while you are carrying a pack full of warm clothes. Being unwilling to use the tools available to get the job done as quickly as possible, is not the same as not doing the job well.

If you know any horse chicks or farriers, ask after any of their old hoof rasps. Think in terms of the mother of all high speed wood removal files. Not inexpensive new, but not painfully so either, they work a treat for moving a bunch of wood pretty quick for freehand contouring. Not as flash as a hand punched rasp from Lee Valley, but meant for different work.

The hand barrel channel scraper is a series of sharp edged disks alternated with rubber washers. If you have a metal lathe, you can make one for a bunch less than they cost to buy.

I have made a couple pretty decent chisels out of the shafts salvaged from old shock absorbers. Both Cold Chisels and wood chisels. Just sayin'.

I have used more than just a few milling cutters in a raouter over the years. The geometry isn't perfect, maybe, but they are cheap and available, and there is no shortage of styles to pick from, in both Hss and carbide solid cutters.

 

[marshall]

View attachment 159765 Just trying something, got a membership and thought I would try to up load picture to see if it works, looks like maybe it does, a miracle
Any way this is my #1 tools for building stuff a small high grade draw knife, no name , but I have seen others just like it, I jusr finished a set of Hi Standard pistol grips with it.
It did work, don't have one of those new fangled phone/camera things, took the picture on the old lap top ( 16yrs old) and after hunting the picture up, posted it.

 

[sean69]

Just trying something, got a membership and thought I would try to up load picture to see if it works, looks like maybe it does, a miracle
Any way this is my #1 tools for building stuff a small high grade draw knife, no name , but I have seen others just like it, I jusr finished a set of Hi Standard pistol grips with it.
It did work, don't have one of those new fangled phone/camera things, took the picture on the old lap top ( 16yrs old) and after hunting the picture up, posted it.

Oh nice

I would be lost without my Lee Valley spokeshave (built from their kit) I would say it gets used on every job - can't think off hand when I didn't use it on a stock (well before I bought it) Nice thing about it is that I can make different sized bodies for the blade. Sometimes the 'long' handles get in the way....

Never used a drawknife before, but it looks like it can get into areas that a spokeshave cant.... mmmmm.. thanks!

 

[sean69]

I am more inclined to this than to B.U.M.'s version.

As Marshall pointed out 'there are drill presses & there.....' same goes for routers, a cheap router with a dull bit is more likely to bring grief and aggravation. the DP/Forstner method would be pretty hard to mess up.

If you know any horse chicks or farriers, ask after any of their old hoof rasps. Think in terms of the mother of all high speed wood removal files. Not inexpensive new, but not painfully so either, they work a treat for moving a bunch of wood pretty quick for freehand contouring. Not as flash as a hand punched rasp from Lee Valley, but meant for different work.

Looks like Nicholson makes one reasonably priced, I'll bet dad has run into more than a few at his farm auctions. Taking a close look at the teeth, the geometry is VERY similar to the hand stitched rasps I have. I'll keep it mind for sure though

The hand barrel channel scraper is a series of sharp edged disks alternated with rubber washers. If you have a metal lathe, you can make one for a bunch less than they cost to buy.

I took a long look at this when I started, I do have a lathe, but it would be a hard argument to get me away from flat scrapers, they remove so much material cost next to nothing and can be made to shape in about 10 minutes. You said you had one? what is the edge geometry on the disks? are they relieved or is it just a 90^ edge?

I have made a couple pretty decent chisels out of the shafts salvaged from old shock absorbers. Both Cold Chisels and wood chisels. Just sayin'.

I just picked up a length of 01 tool steel Friday afternoon, 4' for $45. Should make 4-5 chisels easy.

I have used more than just a few milling cutters in a raouter over the years. The geometry isn't perfect, maybe, but they are cheap and available, and there is no shortage of styles to pick from, in both Hss and carbide solid cutters.

This is very true, I keep looking at them as well. I get by quite well with the 1/2" bit, but something a little larger would be nice. Ball nosed profiles too - all I have are the straight bits and they tend to get a little dicey in a deep cut.

 

[marshall]

Sean, I also have spoke shave's, 3-4 Stanley's and miller falls #1, cigar shape,3/4" round diameter, scarce; but with this little knife you always can see what the cutting edge is doing, most of the time you can't with a spokeshave. I don't have the lee valley one.
I use it bevel down and usually at a skew angle, with the grain will cut a nice radius