stoeger 2000 or franchi i-12 or Baikal MP153

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sp-10

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i am thinking about buying a new semi auto shotgun. my budget is going to be somewhere around the $1000 mark. I plan to mostly use the gun for waterfowl so i am thinking the one i get will be in camo. But i could be talked into wood lol. Has anyone had any experiance with these? There doesn't seem to have been too much talk here about either of them. they are both imported by beretta and use the benelli design. I am not sure if the franchi is worth the extra $400. Also they seem hard to come by. Who has the best price online for them?

thanks
sp-10
 
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i did a lot of research on the P2000, was about to pick one up and then discovered the SPR 453. after even more research :runaway: i went with the latter, and have not regretted my decision.
the SPR 453 will also handle 3.5" shells, whereas the P2000 is limited to 3". if recoil is a factor to you - and with 3.5" shells it should be for anybody - the gas-op action reduces recoil significantly more than the inertia operated actions. the lower priced stoegers dont have all the recoil-reducing features of the higher priced Benellis like the comfortech stock, etc. after breakin itll handle light target loads to heavy 3.5" loads, and can be adjusted, whereas with an inertia system its kindof hit or miss and you may have trouble with lighter loads.

if youre worried about gas-operated reliability, dont be:
[youtube]4bA5JFrHRTU[/youtube]
the downside is that it takes longer to detail clean.

not trying to push you either way -- just food for thought, and a third gun to consider.
i dont know much about the Franchi -- i was looking for a beater all-around hunting semi-auto and was comparing the SPR 453/Baikal MP153, Mossberg 935, Stoeger P2000, used 1187s, etc.
 
I read a review by guntest magazine a few years back and they said the Stoeger M2000 worked better and functioned better than the Franchi I-12. After all their testing the stoeger won the day, no reason to spend the extra $500 on the I-12 if the Stoeger is the better of the 2 guns.

If you buy the stoeger make damn sure you get the newer one with the red fiber optic bead and the raised vent rib. I think they did some mods to the newer ones making them work better. Stay away from the white bead and low vent rib older ones. Cheers
 
i was also considering the SPR 453 i just forget to put that on the list. ill consider that one also, it is heavy but that isn't a worry since it'll mostly be used for waterfoul. I am not interested in remingtons or mossbergs. the remingtons because i have had bad experiences in the past wiith the nd the mossbers because i don't like the safety location
 
i should also add that this isnt your grandpa's 1100 action -- the MP 153/SPR 453's action is pretty robust:

izhmp153syntetykmechanith4.jpg



after reading a half dozen threads on them, i eliminated the Mossberg 935. i dont like the 1100/11-87 O-ring thing either, its a weak point in the design - especially with the modern trend towards poorer machining and burrs on the mag tube. theyre not the same as the guns they made a few decades ago and all i hear are people #####ing about them.
two of my friends are brothers, and they inherited their dads guns: the older brother had first pick and chose the 1100, the younger got the Ithaca pump. the older one #####es to me every single time were out hunting/shooting that he should have chosen the Ithaca. he keeps trying to trade it with his younger brother - who just laughs at him.
there are a lot of people who highly praise the 1100/11-87 but it seems to me that they are often people that baby their guns and do primarily target shooting.
 
that max 4hd SPR 453. is a nice looking gun. i think if i got the baikal i would get the camo. lol i think you got that picture manbearpig from the same shotgun world thread i am reading now lol
 
If you have $1000 to spend look for a lightly used Beretta 391. I had a chance to shoulder a Baikal/Remington. Not a bad gun but just didn't fit and feel right.
 
when the time comes to make the decision i will have a look around to see what is around in used browning and berettas but i will not have the cash for another month or so. so i figure there is no sense in looking at used guns yet. and if i cannot find a used one i will be going with one of the three above
 
^yeah theres not much in the way of customization for them.
i am working on trying to fit 870 stocks onto the SPR 453. dimensionally the butt of the receiver is very similar. its a shame they didnt design them to be compatible - would have been a great feature. im going to try modifying a slingplate into an adapter -- which is not a bad approach anyway since another drawback of the SPR 453 is the fact that it totally lacks sling swivels. the front can easily be solved by opening up an inexpensive scattergun tech front sling mount to fit the slightly larger magazine tube of the 453.
t_800100005_1.jpg
 
Epps has the Baikal MP153 in several configs, the 24" camo ($599) is actually cheaper than the 28" black ($649):
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/new_firearms_BAIKAL.asp

Lebaron has the stoeger p2000 camo for $760, and the field&slug combo for $880. if you go this rout it would be definitely worth it to pick up a Lebaron club card for $25 that would give you 10% off the gun and anything else you buy there for a year.

you might want to look around, in my experience the Remington SPR 453 can be around $100 cheaper than the Baikal branded one. IIRC i bought my black one for $459-10% from Lebaron -- so around $415.


**edit:
Epps has the Stoeger P2000 camo for $599 as well.
http://www.ellwoodepps.com/new_firearms_stoeger.asp
 
Do go for a new one.
I bought Mossberg Semi Auto 935 since 3 years now.
Never ever had a problem, use it at Range, Waterfowl and Upland after changing chokes.
 
i would like to find a new baikal in camo with a longer barrel but i am having trouble finding one, id rather the max 4HD camo
 
if you had to choose between the franchi and the stoeger ...get the franchi...I have had alot of specimens of the stoeger and they are cheap but they do not work that good ...a hatsan is actually a better gun and a little cheaper...just don't get the 3 1/2 they do not work...if you are going 3 1/2 get a baikal...they are the ak47 of shotguns....the gas system is a ripoff of the extrema....without the self regulating gas....the absolute best gun you could get is probably a used extrema....they are the best guns out there....even better that a benelli...trust me i've had them all and the extrema is the best....
 
sorry twogun i always liked franchis but after reading other reviews online i don't think ill be spending the extra 500 or so for the franchi so i think i've eleminated the franchi ... for now anways lol
 
The Baikals can be had for as little as $400 + tax and shipping. Thats what I paid. There was one on the EE for a few mins going for $325 + shipping.

I bought mine with the 24" barrel. With the extended chokes its more like a 25". I actually prefer the shorter barrel. Its a pretty heavy gun as is, and seems to swing better than a lighter, longer barrelled gun.

So far I have somewhere in the area of 3000 rounds through it in the 10 months I've had it. Digests everything except the ultra cheap $60/flat winchesters. Though it may if I tweak the gas system a little bit.

Also, someone mentioned the SPR-453's lack of sling swivels. The baikal comes with some, though they're pretty cheaply made.
 
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