Stoeger Tactical Coach Gun

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made Man said:
how many have you?

also, you might have dozen attackers, but no one wants to be the 2 to die.

that s**t has mall ninja written all over it. Taking down SWAT trained kamikaze crackheads day and night.
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Are you willing to bank your life or the lives of your family members on that fact? Are you so confident that each round from your SXS will hit its mark and incapacitate the threat? Even if your synopsys is correct, one or both of the two dead individuals could be you or member(s) of your family. Your desire to survive and ultimately win is shared by all parties involved.

TDC
 
Who the hell uses a SXS shotgun to hunt elephant? Doubles are good enough because of what they shoot not the design. No reasonable sized pump design I know of will fire .458 win safely let alone the big boys. Kind of s**t reasoning pharaoh. FWIW I would use a double 12g for HD, but if I needed to arm myself i'd almost certainly grab a pistol.
 
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TDC said:
Please support your claim that I A) know nothing about shotguns and B) how my information is flawed or incorrect.

TDC
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Well for one thing you said SXS's are a "Cheaper" alternative to Pump guns. Also You said Semis were "heavy" and "unreliable" need I go on?
Seems to me your main criteria for a self defence gun is. "cheap"
 
B said:
Who the hell uses a SXS shotgun to hunt elephant? Doubles are good enough because of what they shoot not the design. No reasonable sized pump design I know of will fire .458 win safely let alone the big boys. Kind of s**t reasoning pharaoh. FWIW I would use a double 12g for HD, but if I needed to arm myself i'd almost certainly grab a pistol.
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:rolleyes:

Well it's apparant you've missed the point of the debate. We're discussing the dependability of an action, not what kind of barrels are in front of it. And why would nobody build a pump action .458 Winchester if the pump has succeded the double in terms of reliability? The .458 Winchester will fit a standard .30-06 length action. And if super fast follow up shots with 4+ rounds in a magazine is such a good thing, why don't we see any?
 
The double rifle is the most depenable action because a double with two triggers is sort of like two independent firearms at your finger tips. pharaoh's reasoning is good. Win 64 on the other hand is a gun snob fudd;)
 
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Covey Ridge said:
The double rifle is the most depenable action because a double with two triggers is sort of like two independent firearms at your finger tips. pharaoh's resonng is good. Win 64 on the other hand is a gun snob fudd;)
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Love ya brother. :)
 
pharaoh2 said:
:rolleyes:

Well it's apparant you've missed the point of the debate. We're discussing the dependability of an action, not what kind of barrels are in front of it. And why would nobody build a pump action .458 Winchester if the pump has succeded the double in terms of reliability? The .458 Winchester will fit a standard .30-06 length action. And if super fast follow up shots with 4+ rounds in a magazine is such a good thing, why don't we see any?
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Because the action wouldn't handle .458. You insinuated that doubles are best because they are used in Africa on Heavy game. They are used because of the cartridges they fire and the speed of the follow up. No one uses .458 pumps because no pump design will handle it and still be something you could pack. No issues regarding reliability. If your pump likes to jam then either learn to use it or sell it and get one that works. I haven't had anything happen to me that wasn't operator error or the result of using #### ammo. Like I said I have no qualms with a SXS 12g but arguing it's superiority is silly given the vast difference between them.
 
I don't keep a loaded gun ready to fire in my home. So I prefer a single or double gun for self defence because it is quicker to load and ready to go in very limited time. No it doesn't have the 5 or 6 shots of my pump, but it's far simpler to operate under stressfull situations.

However, if I knew in advance and had time to load up on a home invasion, I'd go pump no question.
 
Woodsman said:
I don't keep a loaded gun ready to fire in my home. So I prefer a single or double gun for self defence because it is quicker to load and ready to go in very limited time. No it doesn't have the 5 or 6 shots of my pump, but it's far simpler to operate under stressfull situations.

However, if I knew in advance and had time to load up on a home invasion, I'd go pump no question.
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Well said, I don't see any mobs showing up at my place, 2 rounds should do 'er.
 
SxS = hand saw.
Pump = circular saw.
Semi = cordless circular saw.

They all cut wood or go bang, but which would you use to cut 2x4s?

I would use the best one I could get my hands on.
 
Win/64 said:
Well for one thing you said SXS's are a "Cheaper" alternative to Pump guns. Also You said Semis were "heavy" and "unreliable" need I go on?
Seems to me your main criteria for a self defence gun is. "cheap"
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Again, where's the supporting evidence? You're speculating. I already addressed me error regarding price. Semi autos are indeed heavier than their pump action counter parts and cost more as well.

Rem 11-87 26" 8.125 lbs (91 parts) MSRP $774
Rem 870 26" 7.25 lbs (96 parts) MSRP $425 USD
Mossberg 590 20" 7.25 lbs (79 parts) MSRP $649 USD
Mossberg 930 26" 7.75 lbs (unknown) MSRP $604 USD
Benelli M4 18.5" 7.8 bs (154 parts) MSRP $1700 USD
Browning Citori Field 26" 7.75 (95 parts) MSRP $2300 USD
Beretta Extrema 26" 7.8 lbs (unknown) MSRP $1100 USD

As for reliability, read some posts from another forum regarding the Beretta Extrema and its inability to use all loads available. I don't hear of such issues with a pump gun, or a SXS for that matter.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=4997


Cheap is always a plus, provided the qaulity of the product isn't seriously affected. I doubt the $2300 Citori is the best suited tool for defensive work compared to the others listed. Note the parts count as well. More parts for fewer shots doesn't make much sense to me. To be honest, I'm quite surprised the SXS or O/U comprises more parts than most pumps and a few semi's as well.

So lets recap. The SXS or O/U costs more, has as many or more parts, and weighs more than a quality pump gun and in some cases semi auto. One step further, the Semi autos are nowhere near as reliable as a pump gun. Looks to me the pump gun has the bases covered. Cheap as in economical, lighter, fewer parts, increased magazine capacity and reliability.

TDC
 
Covey Ridge said:
The double rifle is the most depenable action because a double with two triggers is sort of like two independent firearms at your finger tips. pharaoh's reasoning is good. Win 64 on the other hand is a gun snob fudd;)
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So more parts is more reliable?? Thanks for that logical gem.:rolleyes:

TDC
 
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Woodsman said:
I don't keep a loaded gun ready to fire in my home. So I prefer a single or double gun for self defence because it is quicker to load and ready to go in very limited time. No it doesn't have the 5 or 6 shots of my pump, but it's far simpler to operate under stressfull situations.

However, if I knew in advance and had time to load up on a home invasion, I'd go pump no question.
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Where to start. If you don't have a firearm loaded at the ready you're already lacking in mindset and behind the power curve. The break action isn't any faster to load than a pump and here's how. Load the tube/magazine on the pump, leave the action open. Bump in the night, drop a round in the E port and close the action. There you have it, one loaded shotgun with 5/6/7/8 more rounds on tap. Or you could crack the action on your single or double and drop in one round which provides you with...ONE ROUND. Or, drop in two rounds which takes more time than dropping one round and only offers you one additional round. Simple math answers the question.

Being "simpler" to operate under stress is a two part answer. First off relying on a simple system that isn't the most effective or logical tool for the job screams of a lack of mindset and training. Second, it tells me you don't understand what is important in a defensive firearm or fail to see the advantages of one system over the other.

Last, if you knew ahead of time of an impeding home invasion why not alert the authorities or leave the house? Again, a lack of mindset and tactics.

TDC
 
TDC said:
Where to start. If you don't have a firearm loaded at the ready you're already lacking in mindset and behind the power curve. The break action isn't any faster to load than a pump and here's how. Load the tube/magazine on the pump, leave the action open. Bump in the night, drop a round in the E port and close the action. There you have it, one loaded shotgun with 5/6/7/8 more rounds on tap. Or you could crack the action on your single or double and drop in one round which provides you with...ONE ROUND. Or, drop in two rounds which takes more time than dropping one round and only offers you one additional round. Simple math answers the question.

Being "simpler" to operate under stress is a two part answer. First off relying on a simple system that isn't the most effective or logical tool for the job screams of a lack of mindset and training. Second, it tells me you don't understand what is important in a defensive firearm or fail to see the advantages of one system over the other.

Last, if you knew ahead of time of an impeding home invasion why not alert the authorities or leave the house? Again, a lack of mindset and tactics.

TDC
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Why is it you have to turn every thread you respond to a home invasion thread? Are you looking for company?
 
TDC said:
As for reliability, read some posts from another forum regarding the Beretta Extrema and its inability to use all loads available. I don't hear of such issues with a pump gun, or a SXS for that matter.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=4997

So lets recap. The SXS or O/U costs more, has as many or more parts, and weighs more than a quality pump gun and in some cases semi auto. One step further, the Semi autos are nowhere near as reliable as a pump gun. Looks to me the pump gun has the bases covered. Cheap as in economical, lighter, fewer parts, increased magazine capacity and reliability.

TDC
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So lets "recap" You don't know anything about shotguns, As long as it is cheap it has your vote. Love your "fantasy land".
 
Win/64 said:
Why is it you have to turn every thread you respond to a home invasion thread? Are you looking for company?
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The nature of this thread is based around HD. Note the accessory rails attached to the abortion in the OP and the mention of "tactical" in the title. As to the rest of my posts, would you care to dispute the information I've posted?

TDC
 
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