Stop a T-rex with a 10mm?

fuzzynuts54 said:
might be wrong but I'm pretty sure nothern rangers and greenlands coastal forces are issued glock 20's over the typical 9mm due to polar bears. I totally could be talking out of my rectum here.
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I would be very very doubtful the northern rangers are issued any handgun, much less a 10mm. IIRC though, the greenland border/coastal foot patrols are issued a Glock 20, along with a modern bolt action rifle in a decent calibre.
 
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.45 Colt can be loaded to levels that are well beyond 10mm. That said it's still a great round. If I were in Grizzly country and couldn't carry anything but a 10mm I'd use a 220grn LRN bullet at 1200fps, Blue Dot and 800-X will get you there. The only problem is that weight is a ##### to find in Canada. Time to start casting my own...
 
mlehtovaara said:
Lets compare apples to apples here. You are either comparing listed factory loads or the hottest handloads one can safely make, which is it. You are comparing hot loaded 10mm to factory .45 colt, which is intentionally loaded light for older weaker cowboy guns.

Lets. Loading manual 10mm loads are way, way more powerful than either .45 colt or .44 spl. Not only that, but the 10mm loads i listed are all within SAAMI pressure specs, and can be used safely in any gun chambered for 10mm. You dont need some fancy overbuilt revolver to fire these.

If you don't know who Elmer Keith is you really shouldn't be having this conversation. And those listed loads are nowhere near what a handloaded cartridge can do. Trust me, I have loaded some real stout .44 special, and Magnum and the hottest 10mm round comes nowhere close. .45 colt offers even more case capacity and larger bullets, and assuming you have a gun to handle the load the sky is the limit.

Im sorry, but Elmer Keith has NOTHING to do with the original question, which i answered in my very first post. Go back and read the original post.
Keith has nothing to do with 10mm auto cartridge, which is what this thread is about (supposed to be about anyway), so not knowing him doesn't make me any less qualified to have this discussion.


You may or may not understand that the reloading world is not encompassed in a reloading manual written by lawyers scared of getting sued if some idiot tries to put a hot .45 colt load in an antique cowboy gun. Published data is not the be all and end all of reloading. Someone had to write that book in the first place. In the case of the .44 special, and magnum that soemone was Elmer Keith.

Again, tell me what Elmer Keith, 44spl, .45colt or antique cowboy guns have to do with the original question?!

I dont have any experience loading either, and i assume those are some kind of +P+ loads that MIGHT be safe in SOME modern revolvers.

This is obvious.

Yes, that is why im posting in a 10mm AUTO thread and not a .44spl thread.


How many rounds are you gonna get off at a charging bear, or trying to shoot a game animal with a handgun? This is Canada afterall, and I will take a reliable tuff as nails revolver in .44 mag, or .45 colt any day over a Glock 20, and I am a huge Glock fan. Guess what? The CFO won'y even issue an ATC for carrying a semi auto anymore. Guess why?

Dont confuse proper training/skill with the capability of a handgun. Look at the video bellow. Show me a .44mag/.44spl/.45colt that can dump 25000 ft/lb of energy into a small target, accurately in 7 seconds.
Second, Glocks are just as reliable as any revolver out there. This is not the 1920's anymore...
Third, there ARE ATC's issued for Glock 20's in Canada.

In a bear attack situation, or even a hunting situation you may only get one or two shots! I will take the biggest round I can get thank you.

And what if you miss? Good luck making a fast, accurate follow-up shot with that 325gr@1250fps revolver.

Well you got something right. It is adequate, but certainly far from ideal. Guess what would be ideal for most large game hunting in N.A.? Probably a .44 mag, or even hand loaded .45 colt, but baybe a .454 Casull. All much better choices than a 10mm.

Maybe, but i dont recall the OP asking "Whats the best caliber for grizzly defence?" Whats your point?



And just so you know the gentleman who you were arguing with before I came along is one of the most educated people on this site when it comes to reloading, as far as I have seen.

There is not too many people here who will question what this man says when it comes to reloading.

I love Glock's to, but you are fighting a losing battle here my friend. I would take this as a lesson, and be happy you learned something.


Most of the people who replied to this thread have to learn to read and comprehend. I dont know much about reloading .44spl or .45colt, and that's why you dont see my posting in threads on that subject.
OP asked specifics about stout 10mm loads, and aside from B in the very last post, i was the ONLY one who answered his question out of 15 or so people who replied.

As knowledgeable as im sure Ben is, he pretty much derailed this thread with the very first reply.

As I've said before, although not ideal, a properly loaded 10mm is more than adequate for bear defense.
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[youtube]lcvcJSltRqA[/youtube]


Rode said:
Just looked at the ammo from buffalo boar and double tap. They use hard cast and go up to 230 gr for the 10mm. I bet those would dig deep. It would be nice to find there bullet suppliers.


zz denis

I was thinking about the XTP's as I shoot them in other guns. I just don't know if the hollow point would keep them from really penetrating deep?
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Bullets heavier than 200gr tend to be less efficient in 10mm in terms of kinetic energy. Double tap's 230gr loads are TERRIBLY inaccurate in factory Glock barrel - has something to do with the rifling and twist on the factory barrel.

200gr XTP's were specifically designed for 10mm hunting. They dont expand early, retain most of their mass and penetrate deep because of it.
 
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joe-nwt said:
10mm adequate for Grizzly?

Oh man, this thread's gonna get good......:popCorn:
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Google "10mm bear defence" or "10mm bear protection" and do some reading.

Yes, a bigger caliber will often compensate for lack of skill and training, but not everyone needs to compensate.

If you dont feel safe with 11 (or 16) 200gr bullets @ 1250-1300 fps in a bear county, you should really go to the range and practice more often.

joe-nwt said:
Big deal. He got a 6" group on a stationary target 3' off the end of his muzzle.:rolleyes:
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The video is just an illustration that with proper training one can make use of having 13000 ft/lb of energy in a magazine in a possible bear defence situation...

And yes, shooting THAT fast with 10mm, with that kind of accuracy IS a big deal.

Look at some other videos from that fellow. He can hit a (bear sized) gong at 230 yards with a bone stock sub-compact Glock 27 more than 50% of the time, and a much smaller gong at 80 yards 100% of the time.
 
My argument and issue with zz denis's statement has nothing to do with bear defense. This is a topic I don't care to have, for the millionth time here on CGN. My point was that there is no comparison between the potential of .44 mag or .45 colt, and 10mm. Trying to defer the topic to bear defence capabilities is not helping.
 
mlehtovaara said:
My argument and issue with zz denis's statement has nothing to do with bear defense. This is a topic I don't care to have, for the millionth time here on CGN. My point was that there is no comparison between the potential of .44 mag or .45 colt, and 10mm. Trying to defer the topic to bear defence capabilities is not helping.
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The point I believe he is trying to make is that the OP is not asking about .44 or .45! In a pinch 10mm will be a lot more effective than nothing and much more effective than hundreds of other cartridges.

The OP's question...
What bullets are recommended for deep penetration, weight retention, and all the good stuff that makes it good for hunting and will handle the velocity of a 10mm

All of a sudden the whole thing went to #### and his question was answered by 2-3 people out of everyone here.
 
B said:
The point I believe he is trying to make is that the OP is not asking about .44 or .45! In a pinch 10mm will be a lot more effective than nothing and much more effective than hundreds of other cartridges.

The OP's question...
What bullets are recommended for deep penetration, weight retention, and all the good stuff that makes it good for hunting and will handle the velocity of a 10mm

All of a sudden the whole thing went to s**t and his question was answered by 2-3 people out of everyone here.
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I took exception to zz dennis's comments. That was it. I adressed them, and that was all.

I notice your post here does nothing to address the OP's original question either.:jerkit:
 
B said:
The point I believe he is trying to make is that the OP is not asking about .44 or .45! In a pinch 10mm will be a lot more effective than nothing and much more effective than hundreds of other cartridges.

The OP's question...
What bullets are recommended for deep penetration, weight retention, and all the good stuff that makes it good for hunting and will handle the velocity of a 10mm

All of a sudden the whole thing went to s**t and his question was answered by 2-3 people out of everyone here.
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Thank you.
It's good to see that some people actually take time to read posts here.

mlehtovaara said:
I took exception to zz dennis's comments. That was it. I adressed them, and that was all.

I notice your post here does nothing to address the OP's original question either.:jerkit:
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Why even post in this thread if you have nothing useful to add? You posted a whole bunch of stuff, and NONE of it had anything to do with the original question.

It's like someone asking "What is the best bullet for shooting 1200 yards with .308win?" and people (like you) replying ".338 LM is better for 1200 yards".


Brutus said:
Offhand comments equating 22 lr to 38 special I guess had absolutely nothing to do with this right? :rolleyes:
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I didnt "equate" .22lr to .38spl. Please read my post again. I just said they had comparable energy levels. I said nothing about stopping power. This statement, although 100% correct, had as much to do with OP's question as the post that i replied that to.
 
zZ_denis said:
.357 mag, .44 special and .45 colt are all significantly weaker than 10mm.
10mm can be safely loaded to mild .41 magnum energy levels.
Of the rounds you listed, only .44mag offers noticeably better performance.
.38 special has a huge case but similar energy to hot .22lr loads..
Properly loaded 10mm is capable of taking any game in North America, period.
With a std capacity magazine, Glock 20 is one of the most powerful factory handguns in existence, in terms of combined energy of all the rounds in the mag. Many Americans use it for bear defense in Alaska. If you do your part, the 10mm is perfectly adequate for large game animals.
Even with handicapped Canadian mags, i'd much rather pack a Glock 20 with 11 rounds of properly loaded 10mm than a 44 mag with 5 rounds if i had a wilderness ATC

As for original question, your best choice would be 200gr Hornady XTP's with IMR 800x powder. These can be launched at 1250fps from a factory Glock barrel, about 50-75fps faster from a 6" aftermarket barrel. These bullets were specifically designed for 10mm for hunting large game (unlike most other .40 bullets that are intended for .40 Short and Weak). AA7, Longshot and Blue Dot powders also work well, but 800x is usually the powder of choice for nuclear loads.
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Oh really??
 
i have seen ted nugent take a bore with a 10mm auto lol. it was funny when the bore walked in front of him in a bow hunt for turkey. i think the camera man jumped cause he wasnt expecting a gunshot. he took the beast with one round though. a hog is by no means a t-rex though :D
 
zZ_denis said:
Google "10mm bear defence" or "10mm bear protection" and do some reading.

Yes, a bigger caliber will often compensate for lack of skill and training, but not everyone needs to compensate.
So it's better to compensate for a lack of skill and training with more rounds?
:p

If you dont feel safe with 11 (or 16) 200gr bullets @ 1250-1300 fps in a bear county, you should really go to the range and practice more often.
One might say the same about someone who didn't feel comfortable with 6 rounds of 44mag.



The video is just an illustration that with proper training one can make use of having 13000 ft/lb of energy in a magazine in a possible bear defence situation...

And yes, shooting THAT fast with 10mm, with that kind of accuracy IS a big deal.
The point I was making is there is a small difference between a target at 3' and a charging grizzly.

Look at some other videos from that fellow. He can hit a (bear sized) gong at 230 yards with a bone stock sub-compact Glock 27 more than 50% of the time, and a much smaller gong at 80 yards 100% of the time.
Perfect skill to have when it comes to charging grizzlies.....
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To the OP, if you are looking at penetration, Sierra used to make a 190gr Jacketed flat-point. Might be what you are looking for.
 
Using the link from ‘geologist’ and extracting the info that ‘350 Mag’ had posted I was able to pick the 200 gr XTP bullet.

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr XTP @ 1350fps – 17.25” / .77”
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

I did read another article comparing hardcast and the XTP’s and it stated that the hardcast will usually pass right through without doing much damage. So I opted for the XTP’s and picked them up at Wholesale today along with some blue dot.

I’m still interested in more input as to what other bullets would be great for this propose.

I did get a lot more out of this than I expected like:

-a 10mm is a small case
-a 10mm is not a big game caliber
-a 10mm cannot be loaded as powerful as the .41mag
-Keith hates the 10mm

Thanks everyone for all the help.

Glock20.jpg
 
I'm prolly responsible for this thread going astray as much as anyone, I jumped in early because in my humble opinion the 10 mm does not have the power for humanely shooting big animals, period......I assumed that everyone knew Elmer and his loads and experiences, or how i like the .44s and .45s loaded full out......as someone else mentioned, in modern guns these cals. can be loaded to the same pressure levels as other chamberings in the same gun, if you know what you are about! Again...this is just my humble op.....
 
According to Cartridges of The World a factory load 38 Special 150 LRN bullet at 890 fps has an energy value of 270 ME.
A 22 LR Stinger 32 grain HP at 1640 fps has an energy value of 191 ME. Similar?? Not unless you've failed math IMHO.
Unless the laws of physics are especially different for the GTA, the above figures speak for themselves.
 
Rode said:
I would like to build 10mm auto ammunition for stopping the baddest and meanest animals that walk the earth, of course within reason... LOL

What bullets are recommended for deep penetration, weight retention, and all the good stuff that makes it good for hunting and will handle the velocity of a 10mm.

I have been told that most of the 40 caliber bullets perform for the 40 but not the 10mm (when it comes to hunting bullets)

I'm not interested in the high prices that Barnes has either as I will be using these bullets for everyday shooting at the range.
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also if you go on you tube and type in 10mm doulbe tap there is a guy who tests all the loads shooting through car winshield pretty cool
 
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