Stopping Power (debate)

canadaman30

canadaman30

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With all the high velocity cartridges on the market where do they stand in comparison to heavy calibre loads : 270 wsm, 7mm rum or the 45-70, 450 marlin. seems like alot of guys out there are still liking the slower bigger calibres.
 
It still all boils down to shot placement.... ;)

2007-10-27_091302_1aCoffee.gif

NAA.
 
All my rifles have no problem stopping what I shoot at. A 444 marlin, a .30-06(x3), a .338 win mag, a .270win, a .30-30 marlin, 9.3x62 husky, ......it doesn't matter, they all will stop what ever walks on this continent, 2 or 4 legged types
 
I had it explained to me this way:

"What would cause a bigger mess: a super-fast meteor colliding with the earth, or the slow, lumbering moon colliding with the earth instead?"

I would reckon the moon would cause a ####storm of a mess, seeing as we get hit with meteors all the time and nothing happens. (Save for the dinosaur thing, but that was something moon-sized AND going extremely fast.)
 
Actually the estimated size of the metor was 16km in diameter and travelling at 75,000km per hour.....so compared to the size of the earth, thats more like a 257 wby....
 
If you use Taylor knockout values, the 45/70 loaded properly, is right up there with the .416 Rem./Rigby, and well above the .375 H&H, the smallbore cartridges you mentioned barely have any value. Taylor figures are based on using a solid bullet, and when you think of it, it is a good way to compare because expansion is not in any way predictable or measureable when the material used is muscle and bone. A big .45 or .50 cal., hardcast flatpoint is the "bees knees" whether it expands or not!
 
Yeah, and that meteor hit the earth and killed the dinosaurs, but the earth just shook it off and kept on walking. Pretty much the same thing when things get hit with a 257 Roy.

If the moon hit, oh boy...
 
The earth (a rock) shook it off, the the living creatures did not... i guess you never seen a 257 smoke a deer.... the deer didn't quite shake it off.... put them down just as fast as my .50 cal muzzleloader... they all work whether they are fast and small or large and slow.....
 
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hansol said:
I had it explained to me this way:

"What would cause a bigger mess: a super-fast meteor colliding with the earth, or the slow, lumbering moon colliding with the earth instead?"

I would reckon the moon would cause a s**tstorm of a mess, seeing as we get hit with meteors all the time and nothing happens. (Save for the dinosaur thing, but that was something moon-sized AND going extremely fast.)
Click to expand...


Actually there's some debate that after a meteor reaches a certain size, further increases in size don't make that much difference as the force of destruction is not maintained at the earths surface, but radiates upward and out into the atmosphere since that is the path of least resistance.

Anyway this isn't an astronomy forum. We all know bullets penetrate and the damage and force with which they strike is contained within the target. Stopping power is frequently interpreted as a function of velocity, bulletweight, cross sectional area of the bullet, and the target characteristics. Ideally, the bullet with the greatest stopping power will be of a design that has the greatest weight and diameter and fragmentation properties such that the most velocity or kenetic energy is absorbed by the target.

In plain english, big bullet, fast speeds, and penetration that transfers as much energy to the target before it can blow through the target is the one with the better stopping power.

The big argument over which is the best still remains because of the variations in range to target and how tough the target is to penetrate. Bears wearing body armor at 600 yards may be more significantly affected by a high velocity, non fragmenting bullet, whereas it would pass through a watermelon at 50 yards with little damage and the watermelon would be more effectively stopped by a slow moving 12ga slug. Clear as mud?
 
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For those that don't believe that velocity is the biggest factor I propose a simple test. Drop a bullet on one of your feet, and shoot yourself in the other one. Those in the slow and heavy camp can drop their rifle on the first foot. Observe the results and get back to me.;)
 
Dogleg said:
For those that don't believe that velocity is the biggest factor I propose a simple test. Drop a bullet on one of your feet, and shoot yourself in the other one. Those in the slow and heavy camp can drop their rifle on the first foot. Observe the results and get back to me.;)
Click to expand...


Thats great! LOL!
 
But isn't the counter-argument the "baseball vs wiffle ball" theory?

Take two balls. One is a baseball, one is a wiffle ball. Ther are extremely close to being the same size. You go stand in the corner, and I will throw each ball at your head, the baseball at 25km/h, and the wiffle ball at 50km/h. Which one will hurt more?

Through personal experience, the wiffle ball stings, but the baseball knocks you on your ass and leads to a whole bunch of painful feelings. High school gym class lent itself well to testing obscure theories...
 
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I would say either way, dead is dead.... if you want stopping power, I would pick the medium.... 375 H&H 260grs at 2700fps....... kind of the best of both worlds...
 
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Well on one side we have the Uncle Roy's 257 and on the other we have Grandpa's 45/70.

Shoot both at deer and 9 times out of ten the Roy will make a more spectacular and sudden kill....Which lead Roy himself to believe he had discovered the wrath of God....He shot everything up to and including buffalo with the little thing....Almost 50 years before the 45/70 got used on the African big 5!

The flip side to that coin is shooting a big bull moose with both. The 45/70 will give old Bullwinkle a serious and instant case of the stumbles while the 257Roy will do the job, but it may take a bit longer.

It is clear that all the Roy has going for it is explosive speed while all the 45/70 has is size and mass....Interesting when you stop and think about it.
 
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