Stopping Power (debate)

[Boomer]

Boomer,
What was Sullivan like to hunt with?
Did you take your buff "Sullivan style"?

Does he have a safari website?

His website is nitroexpresssafaris.com.

While my buff was taken without any high drama, the one my partner shot got into some thick cover, and resulted in a pretty intense follow up. None of that compared to the day we got in the middle of a herd in the tall grass though. We had 300 buffalo, some as close as 6', but we couldn't see them, other than a flash of black hide or a momentary glint from the sun on a horn. We could smell them and hear them, and when they ran the ground shook. We could have been squashed by accident, but we weren't. That was exciting, and had we shot nothing on the entire safari, that one experience made the cost worthwhile.

What is Sullivan like to hunt with . . . lets put it this way, if I was to go again, he would be my first choice.

 

[Camp Cook]

Here is another picture of my little grizzly for you.

The guy in the picture is 6' 4" and weighs 275lbs.

Another pic of my interior grizzly with an average 7 1/2' interior grizzly oh and the skull measured 24 1/16" and Steve the owner of Wildlife Designs in 150 Mile House is 6’ tall...

My dog weighs 80lbs...

Like I said you haven't a clue...

 

[Omega]

Me thinks he doth protest too much...

 

[Gatehouse]

Which brings up an interesting question- What formula was used to estimate the weight of the bear?

 

[Camp Cook]

The spewing continues...

Gate the guide outfitter that has worked this area for over 35 years is the one that estimated the weight for me he also stated that it was the largest interior grizzly that he had ever seen.

I don't know his formula but I trust his experience, he also told me that this bear is larger than the bears on display in the Smithers airport and Houston both of which were close to 1000lbs.

 

[Gatehouse]

Was this the same outfitter that told you it would go in the top 5 in BC ?

 

[X-fan]

I would like to think I would have passed on that little interior bear, but they all look like shooters after a week or two of watching chutes!

Nice bear Camp!
It has a nicer coat than most....In the end that is all you look at.
I do believe your guide overstated the trophy quality. I suppose this is good for business referals.

That said I've looked at my fair share of bears and I probably would have of drilled him for his coat and his respectable size....Gatehouse would have lit him up too!

Be nice Gatehouse....You meany you!

 

[Gatehouse]

I would like to think I would have passed on that little interior bear, but they all look like shooters after a week or two of watching chutes!

Nice bear Camp!
It has a nicer coat than most....In the end that is all you look at.
I do believe your guide overstated the trophy quality. I suppose this is good for business referals.

That said I've looked at my fair share of bears and I probably would have of drilled him for his coat and his respectable size....Gatehouse would have lit him up too!

Be nice Gatehouse....You meany you!

With my first ever grizzly tag in my pocket this year, I don't intend to be too picky. I'll be happy to take either of the grizzlies in the above pictures.

I have no intention on turning down a 7 ft grizzly, but probably won't shoot it on day 1.

I'm not being mean, but I've been told so many times how such and such black bear was 400-500 lbs and then I see it and it's a nice 6 foot bear, about 300 lbs, tops. I've been told that grizzlies have weighed 800/900/1000 lbs and then I see it and they are very nice grizzly bears in the 400/500/600 lb range, tops. Why not just be happy with the size the bear has achieved?

So when I hear a bears weight, I usually want to know how someone came to the conclusion, because a 1000 lb grizzly is not very common. The guide also said that the bear would go into the top 5 for the BC record book, and it's not even close, so how close his weight estimation is could be in question.

This brings up another topic, although it's off topic- I never could understand why some people want to stretch the truth about the size of animals. The hunter didn't grow the bear, he didn't grow the antlers, didn't' survive the harsh environment, dodge bullets and larger predators, etc. Why try to exaggerate the size of something you had no hand in producing? If you ned to exaggerate the size of an animal to make yourself feel good, maybe you shouldn't have shot it in the first place?

I suppose that some guides are used to stretching the truth, to make their clients happy, although I suppose eventually the client is going to find a tape measure.

Several guides I know say the same thing "Some clients are very happy when they walk up to the ram/elk/bear they just killed, but then later back at camp become depressed after the tape measure shows that it wasn't quite as big as they thought. They have this fantastic experience, have a fantastic hunt and stalk, are so happy and then they let it be ruined by a steel tape. How does that make sense?"

They also say that "the same guy that arrives in camp on Day 1 is the same guy that leaves. So if you are an idiot before you arrive, you will still be an idiot, regardless of you killing a huge ram/elk/bear/moose"

I always thought both of those quotes were interesting, and was a good look into the heads of some hunters.

 

[Gatehouse]

Here is a picture of a spring grizzly, a 9 ft coastal bear. This was taken by my friends buddy. My friend is taking the pictures!

This bear was estimated to be about 800 lbs, by my friend who used to be a grizzly guide, has killed several grizzlies himself and guided to quite a few more. There is no need to exaggerate the size of the bear, the pictures speak for themselves.

A few years previously, I was with my buddy who shot a 7.5 ft grizzly about 1 km away from where these pics were taken. Id' estimate his bears weight at 400 lbs.

 

[MTM]

Nice Bear but the thumbhole stock and brake kinda wrecks it. Sitting 20 ft behind your Bear is kinda silly too. Looks like awsome coastal bear country. Good luck on your Bear Gate.

 

[Gatehouse]

Nice Bear but the thumbhole stock and brake kinda wrecks it. Sitting 20 ft behind your Bear is kinda silly too. Looks like awsome coastal bear country. Good luck on your Bear Gate.

Not my idea of what a .458 WM should look like either, but different strokes...

First picture is a bit silly (another exaggeration) , but the other 2 show the size of the bear, no question.

Thanks for the luck, I will need it. I've torn my knee and it looks liek lots of snowshoeing, which is very painful. I guess all I can do is try.

 

[Omega]

I'm not being mean, but I've been told so many times how such and such black bear was 400-500 lbs and then I see it and it's a nice 6 foot bear, about 300 lbs, tops. I've been told that grizzlies have weighed 800/900/1000 lbs and then I see it and they are very nice grizzly bears in the 400/500/600 lb range, tops. Why not just be happy with the size the bear has achieved?

Gate exactly my thoughts, I've seen 3 black bear that went over 400 pounds in my life, all were weighed on grain elevator scale and all are B&C bears (21 4/16, 21 7/16 and 21 8/16), only one went over 7 feet nose to tail in the round, which of course is the only way to measure as there is no stretch involved. The middle one was mine and was the lightest of the 3 at 410 pounds and the largest went 504. After actually seeing a 500 pound bear it puts a lot of weight claims in a different light. I've taken buddies with "600" pound black bears to the scale to see the look on their face when the bear weighs in at half that or less.

So when I hear a bears weight, I usually want to know how someone came to the conclusion, because a 1000 lb grizzly is not very common. The guide also said that the bear would go into the top 5 for the BC record book, and it's not even close, so how close his weight estimation is could be in question.

I think you have a back ground in or used to butcher? I know that my skills in estimating carcass weight rocked to a whole new level when my daughter went into cattle. None of her pure bred Angus are much over 800 pounds when they slaughter or ship for market. A little 7 or 800 pound steer is a lot of critter laying there to wrestle around! The carcass makes the front end loader on the tractor snort, I giggle when people claim they hauled a 600 pound bear out on the back of a quad!

 

[Gatehouse]

Gate exactly my thoughts, I've seen 3 black bear that went over 400 pounds in my life, all were weighed on grain elevator scale and all are B&C bears (21 4/16, 21 7/16 and 21 8/16), only one went over 7 feet nose to tail in the round, which of course is the only way to measure as there is no stretch involved. The middle one was mine and was the lightest of the 3 at 410 pounds and the largest went 504. After actually seeing a 500 pound bear it puts a lot of weight claims in a different light. I've taken buddies with "600" pound black bears to the scale to see the look on their face when the bear weighs in at half that or less.


I think you have a back ground in or used to butcher? I know that my skills in estimating carcass weight rocked to a whole new level when my daughter went into cattle. None of her pure bred Angus are much over 800 pounds when they slaughter or ship for market. A little 7 or 800 pound steer is a lot of critter laying there to wrestle around! The carcass makes the front end loader on the tractor snort, I giggle when people claim they hauled a 600 pound bear out on the back of a quad!

Not really a butcher, although I've done lots of it. I'm a chef, and I've cut up lots of animals, and I am not bad at ballpark weights.. Your example is pretty good, though. THe only guys that I have seen really good at estimating live weight of an animal have been people that deal with cattle on a regular basis- Ranchers, butchers and farmers, guys that work in stockyards/auctions, etc.

To be good you have to actually have access to scales, something most hunters don't have handy in the bush. (unless they cut up the animal and weigh it, piece by piece on their pannier scales!

 

[Omega]

Not really a butcher, although I've done lots of it. I'm a chef, and I've cut up lots of animals, and I am not bad at ballpark weights.. Your example is pretty good, though. THe only guys that I have seen really good at estimating live weight of an animal have been people that deal with cattle on a regular basis- Ranchers, butchers and farmers, guys that work in stockyards/auctions, etc.

To be good you have to actually have access to scales, something most hunters don't have handy in the bush. (unless they cut up the animal and weigh it, piece by piece on their pannier scales!

Well I was close enough for government work anyway. A chef, eh? (mental note invite Gate to moose camp!)
Good luck with your grizz!

 

[X-fan]

With my first ever grizzly tag in my pocket this year, I don't intend to be too picky. I'll be happy to take either of the grizzlies in the above pictures.

I have no intention on turning down a 7 ft grizzly, but probably won't shoot it on day 1.

I'm not being mean, but I've been told so many times how such and such black bear was 400-500 lbs and then I see it and it's a nice 6 foot bear, about 300 lbs, tops. I've been told that grizzlies have weighed 800/900/1000 lbs and then I see it and they are very nice grizzly bears in the 400/500/600 lb range, tops. Why not just be happy with the size the bear has achieved?

So when I hear a bears weight, I usually want to know how someone came to the conclusion, because a 1000 lb grizzly is not very common. The guide also said that the bear would go into the top 5 for the BC record book, and it's not even close, so how close his weight estimation is could be in question.

This brings up another topic, although it's off topic- I never could understand why some people want to stretch the truth about the size of animals. The hunter didn't grow the bear, he didn't grow the antlers, didn't' survive the harsh environment, dodge bullets and larger predators, etc. Why try to exaggerate the size of something you had no hand in producing? If you ned to exaggerate the size of an animal to make yourself feel good, maybe you shouldn't have shot it in the first place?

I suppose that some guides are used to stretching the truth, to make their clients happy, although I suppose eventually the client is going to find a tape measure.

Several guides I know say the same thing "Some clients are very happy when they walk up to the ram/elk/bear they just killed, but then later back at camp become depressed after the tape measure shows that it wasn't quite as big as they thought. They have this fantastic experience, have a fantastic hunt and stalk, are so happy and then they let it be ruined by a steel tape. How does that make sense?"

They also say that "the same guy that arrives in camp on Day 1 is the same guy that leaves. So if you are an idiot before you arrive, you will still be an idiot, regardless of you killing a huge ram/elk/bear/moose"

I always thought both of those quotes were interesting, and was a good look into the heads of some hunters.

Well said Gatehouse....I agree with you on all levels.

Trophy quality bears are very tough to find in BC and most of us are in for a disappointment if we think we will get a true trophy.
I spent near 20 seasons looking and never found a real monster (neither did your buddy IMHO), but I found immense satisfaction in the looking and time spent with the wildest animal North America has to offer.
If I ever get drawn I will continue the quest.

That will be why I suggest shooting a nice coat...There is more satisfaction in looking at a decent sized quality coat than looking at some flea bitten splotchy 8 foot cape anyway.

If you are the kind of guy that "needs" a trophy you better go to carefully selected areas in Alaska and you better go often.....For years if need be...That is what it takes.