Stopping Rifles, .375 - .450 - .505 Gibbs
- Thread starter Ardent
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, I just ran the two targets drill with the .375, .450, .470, and .505. Should have a shooter's point of view video by late tonight up, the .450 knocked the head mounted camera askew, and I had to reset it twice to manage to get it to stay in place to catch the .505's action. A good afternoon all in.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Hope you post the blooper reel also...
Oh there are at least two good ones, will be sure to include them, one of these four guns I shot today, I couldn't shoot for the life of me. There was however likely a good reason for that, it's the only model of the group I haven't personally owned for years in at least another chambering, the only one I've never used in Africa, and the only one with different sights. You probably already have the picture of which one. The length of pull is also a tad shorter than the others, and I already find standard factory LOPs on the short side, adding a real recoil pad usually brings Rugers etc to perfection for me. The freaking thing just didn't work for me at all and I got frustrated by it, as you'll see, I thought it was going to tie for best too.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Well, here's a video of what they're like to shoot. I was solo so forgive the simplicity of the targets and setup. No surprise, guns I have years of experience on and own versions of myself I did well with. The Granite Mountain Mauser frustrated me, and I had one jam when cycling hard with those solids. I was unable to replicate it with TSXs, which fed like greased lighting. When I shoot the .470 and even .505 well enough to hit one square foot targets in a snap I don't see a reason to try and learn the gun I don't like. You'll note if paying attention I do a funny bolt close on the .505 once or twice, it takes an inordinate amount of force to close the bolt on the Superior rounds, and I thought it was an ever so slight tight headspace thing or bullets meeting the lands. Then I noticed the bolt face has tooling marks from facing it and opening it up to the .505 case head, I found the more I cycled rounds with hard closes of the bolt, that instead of gaining headspace with a slight squeeze to the chamber they were getting harder to close on. I found galling on the case head and it seems they were locking up against the bolt face. A dab of oil on the bolt face from my dipstick helped, but stickhunter if you don't mind I'd like to tweak the bolt face. I'm a reasonably old hand at a lathe and would chuck it up and remove the tiniest amount possible to get a fine finish that slides freely without affecting the headspace, will make a big difference in the cycling.
The slow motion starts to show the recoil a bit, it looks downright mild in this perspective, you'll see what I mean about completely manageable.
The slow motion starts to show the recoil a bit, it looks downright mild in this perspective, you'll see what I mean about completely manageable.
Thanks Angus. Your video raises a few questions for me:
Why can't I bring myself to make you a deal on the Merkel you have on the EE?
What? No remedial action drill on the misfeed? (My AR might be showing a little there.)
WHAAAAAT? No speed reload with the R#1? Um, WHAAAAAT? LOL. I liked practicing a speed reload with the #1 I owned, carrying spare cartridges between the fingers of either weak or strong hand. (I'm not suggesting I got particularly good at it, but I did like trying.)
Nice video!
Why can't I bring myself to make you a deal on the Merkel you have on the EE?
What? No remedial action drill on the misfeed? (My AR might be showing a little there.)
WHAAAAAT? No speed reload with the R#1? Um, WHAAAAAT? LOL. I liked practicing a speed reload with the #1 I owned, carrying spare cartridges between the fingers of either weak or strong hand. (I'm not suggesting I got particularly good at it, but I did like trying.)
Nice video!
stickhunter
CGN frequent flyer
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Cool video, Ardent! Thanks for taking the time to make it. Although you'd already given us the heads up, I'm surprised at how mild the recoil looks on all of those rifles. What I found particularly evident was how fast and smooth the followup shot was with the double rifle. That's not a surprise, but still very impressive to see alongside the bolt actions. At what distance were those planks?
Sorry to hear that you ran into issues with the GMA. You don't think the hangups were ammo-related, or was it really down to an ill-fit and different action feel?
Ardent, if you feel that would be the best course of action, then by all means. I'd be interested in a before-and-after picture of the bolt face, so I can see what you're talking about. As I said, treat the rifle as your own, and if that's what you'd do, then you have my support and approval.
Really cool to see you get these big bores roaring!
Sorry to hear that you ran into issues with the GMA. You don't think the hangups were ammo-related, or was it really down to an ill-fit and different action feel?
Ardent, if you feel that would be the best course of action, then by all means. I'd be interested in a before-and-after picture of the bolt face, so I can see what you're talking about. As I said, treat the rifle as your own, and if that's what you'd do, then you have my support and approval.
Really cool to see you get these big bores roaring!
Nicely done. That double rifle follow up was quick for sure. It's too bad that while flat nose projectiles are the best for transfering energy into dangerous game they are the hardest to make cycle smoothly. Not an issue in a double of course
It is to be congratulated that you are open to what the testing is showing rather creating a test that will show what you want.
It is to be congratulated that you are open to what the testing is showing rather creating a test that will show what you want.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thanks Kevan, hopefully you'll like the article too, still working on it.
Hey, would be happy to help you on the Merkel in making it a reality, I'm even faster with that one than the .470 as I know it like my wife and it kicks less. I'm at the risk of sounding a little too sure but I feel like I can snap shoot butterflies with that rifle.
Naw, I was so frustrated by that .450 and it not fitting me and not shooting to my instinctive point of aim, to hell with it. Won't pack it on a trip so didn't work on technique with it either. In the video a page back I do a very sedate spare hand reload on the No.1, you can certainly work them reasonably quickly.
Appreciate the kind words, hopefully the article pleases when I finally wrap it up.
About 25-30 yards, a bit out there for true stopping I suppose, but it's harder than closer and didn't want to appear to be shooting targets at my feet. The .450 ammo was by Superior, and certainly good stuff, it just didn't like blunt nose solids run hard, at least that one time. The foreign feel certainly had me working it more sloppily, and the stock didn't work for me, all in all it'll move on and won't invest effort in learning it. It's an exceedingly nice rifle, I'd just rather carry a big double, they work for me. Grew up wing shooting and it feels like the same thing, you forget you're even looking at the sights, with an unfamiliar bolt action I have to physically consider aiming and cycling.
Sounds good re: the bolt face, will grab a couple pics of what I mean, it will be really really smooth on the bolt with a simple touch up. I love your .505, and it feels great. I actually think I was a split hair faster with your .505 than my .375 RSM! That's the difference taking that weight off the nose makes, pointing is certainly a real thing and your .505's light front end due to that 1/2" bore makes it point like a wand as you well know. If I had to use my .375 or your .505 in anger, I'd hands down choose your .505, that's saying something given it recoils three times as hard.
Nice to see them in action. Got any before and after of your shoulder?
We'll try and do a side video if I can talk my shooting partner into coming out, would be a good perspective. We did some but they were cell phone videos in the near dark and pretty much a waste of video. I've got pink pin pricks around my right shoulder but they're very minimal.
Nicely done. That double rifle follow up was quick for sure. It's too bad that while flat nose projectiles are the best for transfering energy into dangerous game they are the hardest to make cycle smoothly. Not an issue in a double of course
It is to be congratulated that you are open to what the testing is showing rather creating a test that will show what you want.
Thanks, and as you know from the .470 she was the sweetheart of all the shoots! Definitely my preference.
All I have on hand at present, already back in the bush. It is a very beautiful rifle with nice wood, and a well done conversion. Balances better than any other RSM I've handled too thanks to the lighter front end with that big .505 hole.
What is the bottom one?! She is a REAL stunner!!!
It would seem that your testing only confirms why the 470 had become the "go to" double by the close of the great double rifle days in Africa and why when Winchester set out to build an affordable bolt gun for the heavy game of Africa they aspired to equal the ballistics old .470................500 gn bullet @ 2150............only they decided on the 458 dia, but nonetheless that was their criteria...........equal the 470 NE in a bolt gun. I might add it is still the most used double in Africa today, by both PHs for back-up and clients using a double.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It certainly seems the perfect middle ground from a handling perspective, it is completely comfortable and a joy to shoot. I don't think I'm much faster even with my .375 in the same gun.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Much to my surprise I didn't like it, but it is likely my experience with express sights that ruined it for me. I'm just so used to subconsciously framing the target with that big black V. I don't worry about the front sight when instinctive shooting, it just finds its own way into the V, and suddenly I was forced to with the aperture sights.
